Meet the Mancunian-8.14-Hemant Patel-transcript

Intro

Welcome to Season 8 of the Meet the Mancunian podcast: social impact stories from Manchester. A warm Mancunian welcome from your host, Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe. Thank you for joining me today.

Every Tuesday, I bring you the stories of Manchester's unsung heroes, the individuals who help to create positive change in our community. My aim is to inspire you, dear listener, to follow your own passions, whether through volunteering or working in the social impact sector. I'm also keen to spotlight good causes and create more awareness and support for them.

Whether you are tuning in on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or on my website, meet the www.mancunian.co.uk, get ready for a season filled with inspiring tales of social impact within our beloved city.

Introduction to Hemant Patel and Anumana

Welcome to the 14th episode of Season Eight of the Meet the Mancunian Podcast: social impact stories from Manchester.

Passionate about supporting coding skills in the youth, we hear from Hemant Patel, CEO, Anumana, in this episode.

In Hemant's own words.

[00:01:14] Hemant Patel: I think the biggest common myth is that you have to have a specific skill set and I guess the biggest common myth is that you have to come from a computer science background to be able to program, or you have had to have previous program experience to program. I think certainly there are a lot of programs out there where people are retraining from completely different vocations into programming.

[00:01:38] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much Hemant for taking the time today.

[00:01:41] Hemant Patel: Thank you, Deepa, for having me.

Finding Passion for Community Support

[00:01:42] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Tell us about how you found your passion for supporting the community. When did that start?

[00:01:46] Hemant Patel: Quite early on, I think a lot of it was born through family, really. I had a fantastic role model in my mother. Coming from an Indian cultural background, there's a strong sense of community spirit. And my mother's such an advocate of that ethos. She's always cared about other people first, looking after other people.

That inspiration has stuck with me and early on, I created a series of charity concerts when I was at school and that was really my first taste of community work and community support. And It just gave me a sense of satisfaction that has stuck with me throughout and I've always felt motivated to want to continue to support the community and just grow that impact that I could potentially have through my own experiences.

[00:02:36] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's lovely that your mother was such a big influence and that the Indian culture which we both share, the real respect for the community, just like there is in Manchester.

The Birth of Code Academy

[00:02:46] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Tell us about the Code Academy and how you got involved with that and what it does.

[00:02:53] Hemant Patel: The Code Academy started quite early on in my creation of Anumana as a business. When I set up Anumana, I was quite keen to build an ethics driven business and a impact driven business. So whilst we do have a commercial focus, that wasn't enough for me. And I felt that having been in industry, a lot of businesses pay lip service to ESG.

It just didn't feel enough for me. So I wanted to create something that could be long lasting looking into the tech sector, there are a few challenges that I had identified some commonly spoken about, some less and that's where we started to develop the idea of the Code Academy.

There are three challenges that we're looking to address. One is the lack of diversity within the tech sector. Talent pool within technology- the ratio of male to female as an example, there's three to four males for every female within the tech sector and that expands towards other minority groupings within technology as well.

The second one was that the government released a paper in 2021 identifying that there was likely to be a skills gap in that the number of technologically talented individuals that were required within the economy was going to be short by a around 200,000 roles.

And then the third one, which I feel is manifesting itself, but not really being talked about is that there's a social mobility problem within technology. The requirements for entering the vocation are becoming more and more stringent and more and more demanding in that when I started in technology 15 years ago, the teams that are working with on average probably had less than one degree per person.

Now there's probably one and a half to two degrees per person and the mandate of higher education therefore creates barriers to entry for those that are from less fortunate backgrounds, which therefore creates a greater diversity challenge with those from more diverse social backgrounds. They are the three challenges that I really wanted to solve and more so the latter one.

And for me that was a problem that really needed to be resolved at the grassroots level. It's a problem with the funnel rather than necessarily the individuals that are contained within the existing talent pool. So we need to do things to start to open up these opportunities and create more interest and opportunity itself for individuals from those backgrounds. And that was the purpose of the Code Academy.

And in a nutshell, we have developed a 16 week program where we train students from the University of Manchester who are volunteering to go into schools around Manchester and teach 14 to 16 year olds the programming language Python. It's a completely free program, and we mandate that schools must include at least 50 percent of the classroom. It must be Pupil Premium identified, so we know that we are truly supporting those from poorer backgrounds.

[00:06:16] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Those are pretty significant challenges you're tackling. Like you said, lack of diversity, the skill gap, and then social mobility and the barriers to entry. And I love that you're working with students to empower other students and, get them into the industry.

Challenges in Building Code Academy

[00:06:33] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What are the challenges that you've faced in this journey? It must not have been easy.

[00:06:38] Hemant Patel: Early doors, I had a quite a challenging decision point that I had to make. Was I going to wait until the commercial side of the business was successful enough to provide me with confidence and comfort that I can do the not-for-profit element? Or did I just think, let's go ahead and build out the not-for-profit element and try and make the commercial aspect of the business successful around the social impact work that we do.

And the decision itself was easy at that point. I thought if I wait for us to be successful, then I could in theory be waiting forever. And actually, success criteria could change over time. And I could always come up with excuses and reasons to do it. So we thought, let's dive in.

Let's start building the Code Academy from ground up. And I'm really proud and happy to have made that decision. However, effectively we've tried to build two businesses at the same time. And building one business from scratch is difficult enough. Building two is significantly more difficult.

These are the challenges that you have to face and overcome if you're going to try and make a significant enough impact.

Scaling and Sustainability of Code Academy

[00:07:50] Hemant Patel: And now that we've proven that we can create something that has impact, our next challenge that we are currently in the midst of facing is how do we scale it?

We're in six schools, we have significant amount of volunteers that are available. But my time and my staff's time is limited to a certain extent that we can't really do it justice to then move to that next level of 20 schools and then beyond. So that's what we are trying to resolve, and we've got ideas, but we've really got to try and find, the right methodology.

[00:08:28] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: And to make it sustainable as well, isn't it?

[00:08:30] Hemant Patel: Exactly that. Sustainability is a really important factor of why we created the Code Academy. We didn't want to a year or two years’ worth of impact and pat ourselves on the back and then say actually, that was a job well done. Leave it there. This is about making sure that it becomes something that's ingrained within society, within the community, and that it lasts for the next 10 to 20 years and beyond,

Because the challenges and problems aren't going to go away, and the only way that we actually resolve them is continuity, and that every year it continues incrementally. That's the biggest thing that we really want to make sure that we're focused on to commit to this strategy.

[00:09:12] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: More power to your elbow, as they say. So I hope you can come up with that sustainable solution and really scale up the program.

Impact and Success Stories

[00:09:20] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Tell us a bit more about the impact that you've made. You said six schools. How many students? And can you share a bit about the impact?

[00:09:28] Hemant Patel: We've been running the program for two and a half years now. And whilst we've been in six schools, we've been in two or three of those schools for three years. Each program has between 10 to 15 children that participates within it. So in total, we've had approximately 180 children go through the program fully and that's amounted to about 20 volunteers and in total I believe it's about 500 hours of volunteer work that we've been able to been able to support the community with.

[00:10:06] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: And also, the fact that you're giving children a potential career path, both the people who are volunteering to teach as well as those who are learning.

[00:10:15] Hemant Patel: There's been some really nice individual youth cases or success stories of those, both from a volunteer perspective and from a children's perspective. We've been in a school in Manchester Academy. And there was a student there who was a hard of hearing girl, and she had someone there to support her to effectively sign language our teaching so that she could understand it and learn the program itself. And really seeing her develop throughout the program and seeing her confidence rise.

Whilst they're still young, they're still about to go into GCSEs and there's still a few years before they break into the world of work, you can start to see that they're developing core skills that are going to stay with them for a long time frame.

From a children's perspective, it's really looking for those small wins, looking at them. The volunteers’ questions about their own experiences at university, being able to understand that actually that doesn't really translate to what they perceived, and therefore that's given them a lot more opportunity to be able to do things that they didn't realise that they could do before.

It's really powerful to see those small stories and that's going to make a really big impact down the line that the butterfly effect will take effect in these situations. And then from a volunteer perspective, we've had one student apply and get into a PGC, as a result of her volunteering on this program and being able to get a reference from the teacher that was supervising her and seeing that actually there was a real passion and ability to teach children.

And similarly, students that were quite shy at the start and lacked self-confidence really grew into themselves throughout the program. And the more that they were able to turn up and take control over it and the more they were able to develop themselves as individuals. Really pleasing to see those individual stories. And hopefully we can start to see some greater success stories as both children and volunteers progress to their next stage in their lives.

[00:12:26] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That's definitely a wonderful impact and really lovely to hear about it.

Debunking Myths in Coding and IT

[00:12:31] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Is there a common myth about your area of expertise, let's say in this case coding and IT, that you want to mitigate?

[00:12:39] Hemant Patel: I think the biggest common myth is that you have to have a specific skill set and that you have to come from a computer science background to be able to program, or you have had to have previous program experience to program. I think certainly there are a lot of programs out there where people are retraining from completely different vocations into programming.

It is very much accessible to all. There might be certain elements that you might need more mathematical or logical brains to be able to progress within certain verticals within the field of IT and coding. But I think program is going to be something that becomes a more necessary skill set for a broader audience. I think breaking those boundaries for those barriers for entry can be really important and that'll really help to diversify the talent pool within the sector.

Advice for Starting Similar Movements

[00:13:36] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What advice would you have for people looking to start a similar movement in another part of the world or another part of the UK? If they want to support students from disadvantaged communities or encourage them to get into the IT sector, what should they do and how should they start?

[00:13:50] Hemant Patel: I think for me, the big thing that children need are relatable role models. What I've understood and experienced is that children are making decisions about their life that they don't really understand about really early on. Or even worse, so that they're almost getting into, they're getting cornered or forced to make a decision that they feel is the right decision to make, without having a full appreciation of what the full facts are and what was really available for them.

And I think a lot of this comes down to their assumptions that they're making based upon the world that they see around them and the biggest assumption within technology is that particularly for girls that are in school is that it's a field for boys.

It's the thing that the boys do, and a lot of that's because they don't have those role models around them to be able to relate to them. We're really keen to try and get the women that are on the university courses to teach and volunteer because then that really gives them that connection. And that will be the thing that influences the next generation to get into this field and feel like it's available and accessible for them.

So I think if people do want to try and start a movement or try and make some sort of impact within the community. I think that role model aspect is a really important consideration. And for me, the way that I've been explaining it recently is I've got two young girls three and five, and I drop them off at nursery and school a few days in the week.

And whenever I drop them off, I always put on my music. And after a while, I reflected and I realised that when I was thinking about role models and how I could make an influence, I realised that the music that I listen to is predominantly male orientated.

And whilst they're not making any comments, unintentionally, I'm creating a scenario where I may be creating an impression upon them that if you're going to go into music, it's more likely that you're going to have success if you're a male and that might be creating a barrier for them.

 What I realised is that I need to diversify my music choices and the music I play to them, because then they can start to really relate to female artists and realise that could be something that they can do and it's something as simple as that. I don't know how much impact it makes, but the context of it is in every single aspect of life.

It's really important to get that diversity to really show them what they can be rather than tell them what they can be, because children are more impressionable when they see something that they can copy rather than when they're told something that they could potentially do. So I think really focusing on that role model aspect is going to be the most powerful thing, I think, for someone else to try and make a success out of a community program.

[00:16:45] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Love that about also giving your daughters new influences and just letting them make the decision on what they want to be. Because today you can be anything you choose to be. And at any stage in life, it's not a career for life now. It's like you choose a career for a phase.

So really interesting and love the idea of the role models and relatable role models. And that's why I think the students you've chosen for college is so relatable because, from school you can connect better with the young adult than a full adult.

[00:17:19] Hemant Patel: Absolutely that. It was an unintended consequence of creating the volunteer program, but really seeing that the rapport between the children and the students, it was a very different approach than students and myself or students and the teacher in the room.

There was still that respect because they were an adult so there was still that relationship. But they felt that they could speak a lot more openly and ask them questions. They were more interrogative. They were more intrigued when they have someone that was just a little bit further on themselves.

And ultimately that's what children are thinking about when they're at age 14 to 16 when they're doing GCSEs, going to A levels. They're not really necessarily picking A levels because of the sake of A levels itself in isolation. They're picking those A levels because they're getting an idea of what they want to do at university.

So having those people there that have already made those decisions and understand exactly what they're doing in this current environment, it's huge. Really important for them.

Personal Reflections 

[00:18:25] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: An opportunity for you to talk about anything I haven't talked about. You said there's a rebranding coming up and, a new phase of the program where you might scale it up. Is there anything you want to tease at this stage?

[00:18:38] Hemant Patel: Just as a business, as a result of, or as a consequence of doing the Code Academy, we realised that we can go for B Corp and we have submitted our application, going through the process and this aligns with we're doing a rebrand and we're about to release our new website.

So we really want to try and create as much information as possible. That's one of the things that we've not done successfully so far is create that awareness. So really keen to try and open up the doors to more people to talk about the community impact and if they want to get involved in whatever manner or at least have conversations, we've had conversations with other businesses that want to do similar things, so very open to to, to helping others try to make that bigger community impact or whether it's, the B Corp and understanding ESG internally, or ESG plus has I like to think of the B Corp strategy, or whether it is, as you say, creating their own community strategy themselves.

[00:19:42] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That sounds like really exciting plans, and I look forward to hearing more about this at the right time.

Signature Questions and Closing Remarks

[00:19:49] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I'm now coming to signature questions that I ask all my guests. And the first one for you, if Manchester was a colour, what colour would it be and why?

[00:19:59] Hemant Patel: Feel like it's the colour gray at the moment because the weather's been so poor recently, but that doesn't really reflect the actual city itself. I think green I think it's a lush city. There's so much vibrancy about it. There's so much energy to it. And for me, it feels like there's always something fresh within Manchester. There's always something new that's happening. Let's go with green.

[00:20:25] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Fresh and vibrant and, somebody called it rainchester to me today and I was like, I get that, but then it's good for the plants, isn't it?

[00:20:34] Hemant Patel: Exactly that.

[00:20:35] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: If you could choose a famous landmark in Manchester to represent you, which one would it be and why?

[00:20:41] Hemant Patel: The one that stands out is probably Peel's Tower. Just something historical in a really nice location overlooking the Manchester scenery and the Manchester surroundings. Been there a couple of times and it's a lovely walk up there. I like the analogy of that being something like us trying to look after the next part of the community of Manchester, Peel's Tower looks above us and maybe is doing the same thing for Manchester itself.

[00:21:11] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I've actually not heard of Peel's Tower, so it's one to add to my list. I'll definitely try to check it out soon.

If you could trade lives with someone in Manchester for a day, who would it be with and why?

[00:21:24] Hemant Patel: Someone in the past. Alan Turing, maybe not necessarily trade his life because it was a tragic life in itself, but certainly would love to experience. Or maybe not necessarily Alan Turing himself, but people that worked around him.

It'd be amazing to see such a influential and integral mind that changed the history of the world, let alone Manchester itself. It would be amazing to be able to speak to him and understand what his thoughts were and what his ideas were and see how his mind works.

[00:21:56] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Interesting choice. What's the most important life lesson you've learned so far?

[00:22:02] Hemant Patel: You can't feel fear failure. Think particularly when starting up a business. The business I started up was bootstrapped. And so you're always faced with challenges and faced with so many reasons not to do something.

But at the end of the day, if you can break down that barrier of the fear of failure and consequence, then that's very freeing. It gives you an opportunity to really explore and experiment and that's where progression comes from. And that's something I learned early particularly in the field of analytics and data. And the pace that it's growing, it can only grow because people are experimenting and don't fear the consequences of things going wrong.

[00:22:48] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Absolutely, learn lessons and move on, isn't it? It's good to fail fast.

[00:22:52] Hemant Patel: Exactly.

[00:22:53] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What's the most important personality trait someone would need to work in your industry or be successful in your role?

[00:23:01] Hemant Patel: I think the ability to listen carefully and clearly and listen without judgment I think, and without reaction. So a very pragmatic approach is really important within the field of data, you have access to a lot more information than your stakeholders and peers. And if you are reactive and emotional in the way that you respond ,it can cause friction.

What's really important, and particularly if you're reactive, you might have missed the initial question in itself, so really being able to be considered in the way that you go about conversations, listen to your audience and take your time and to understand exactly what the right message should be for them differentiates yourself from being good and being great analytics.

[00:23:53] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I liked that very much about, listening and being considered in your response and like you said, understanding the deeper question behind maybe what's on the surface. Really interesting one.

How can interested people reach out to you and learn more about yourself, about the Code Academy, and about Anumana?

[00:24:12] Hemant Patel: The new website will be going live in the matter of weeks. There'll be lots more information there and we'll consistently update with content. But the best way to learn about me is just to get in touch, they can contact me on LinkedIn or they'll see me from via the website. I'm always open to having a coffee and a chat.

[00:24:30] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's been a pleasure to talk to you today.

[00:24:33] Hemant Patel: Likewise, Deepa, thank you for having me on your podcast.

Outro

 Hemant, I really enjoyed learning about supporting the youth today.

Dear listener, thank you so much for listening to the 14th episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast season eight.

Tune in every Tuesday for a new episode or log on to www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to listen to all the episodes and learn more about my podcasting story.

Next on Tuesday, 10th September 2024. I speak to Tanny Rowland about supporting safety in the community.

Thank you for joining me on the Meet the Mancunian podcast social impact stories from Manchester. I hope today's conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired you to act in your community.

A big thank you to my wonderful community for your continuous support and valuable feedback. Your stories shape the very essence of my podcast, driving me forward with purpose. I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Visit my website at meetthemancunian.co.uk to share your insights.

Remember, this podcast is your platform too. Let's stay connected on social media. Find me @MeettheMancunian on Instagram and Facebook, @MancunianPod on X. And @MeettheMancunianPodcast on YouTube.

Together we are more than just listeners. We're a vibrant community dedicated to making a difference in Manchester. Spread the love by sharing, commenting, and engaging with my guests and me. Keep fostering connections and always remember the part change the world lies within each one of us. Until next time!