Meet the Mancunian - Talking local history with Dr. Stephen Evans

Transcript: Meet the Mancunian: Dr. Stephen Evans (Season 4, Episode 1)

Intro

Welcome to the Meet the Mancunian podcast, Season 4. I’m Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe Thomas Sutcliffe, your friendly host. In the streets and nooks of Manchester, my inspiring Mancunian guests tackle their causes with grit and passion. They are leaders, worker bees, and community hosts, and they share their stories to inspire you all through the season.

Relax, grab a brew, and listen in to the Meet the Mancunian podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, or any of your favourite podcasting platforms. You can also check out all the episodes on my new website www.meetthemancunion.co.uk.

Passionate about local history? We hear from Dr. Stephen Evans, Wythenshawe History Group in this episode. I'm delighted to introduce my guest, Dr.Stephen Evans, Chair, Wythenshawe History Group.

Episode 1

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much, Stephen, for joining me today. Looking forward to hearing all about your activities in the local community.

Dr. Stephen Evans: Oh, thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: And of course, you are also going to be talking to us about the Now Forever Heritage Group, which you're also involved with in the community.

So, let's start with how you found your passion for local history.

Dr. Stephen Evans: Well, I think ever since I was a child, I've been fascinated with history and I think you start off with a very broad canvas, and particularly, in my day - I know I sound old- but I remember that you were always introduced to history on a big canvas. So you'd be studying perhaps ancient civilisations, Roman Empire, Egyptian Empire, then the Vikings, and it was always the great and the good and the big stories.

And then later on, you know, schools have really changed on this, and it's really important that they have changed their approach to the teaching of history.  Most schools will now focus on what's around them and their local history, which was never, it was never there for us when we were growing up. So that came with time for me.

So, my interest in history, my passion in history, was always there. But I would say over the last 15 years, I've gained a healthy respect for local history and the social history and the political history of our own communities and how important it is to learn about local history. And I think the schools have been ahead of us on this. they're doing a great job with the teachers creating projects aimed at their environment and what's going on --in the past and the present.

I think it gives a child a really good grounding regarding where they are, why they're there, where they're coming from, to help them to plan where they're going to as well. So that's what, that's where my interest has come from…  a big interest on the big canvas to the very micro focus on historical aspects in my community.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: So that was really interesting, and thank you so much for talking about how you kind of took the passion for ‘the great and the good’ as you called it, and brought it down to local history, and also the shout out to schools, which are really nurturing that. And that is so interesting because it wasn't there when I was in school.

We, you know, back in India we were learning about history long gone past. I've always been passionate about Roman and Egyptian and the Ottoman Empire and I've done a lot of my travels to historical places. So I love being in the UK because there's so much history and I always say that the UK does history with so much class and style.

Dr. Stephen Evans:   Yes, and I think with that, it's really interesting because there's so much history here that it can often be overlooked and undervalued because there's so much of it.   You know, if you travel to some countries, particularly the United States, where they kind of place a plaque on for anything ---like ‘George Washington tied his horse to this tree’.

And I think because being a relatively young country in terms of a political entity, that history has been valued to a greater extent, …….it's such a new country in terms of the political landscape. Of course, there have been people who have populated it thousands of years before.

But also, it's a way of bonding, isn't it? And creating a shared narrative, and a shared chronology is part of nation-building. And I think we see that a lot more in, new countries or relatively new countries. We are blessed with so much history in this country even when you see the bigger picture, for example, Mesopotamia, Phoenicia where you think there were connections with our country in terms of like traders for tin, for gold, but also, you know, we were an outpost of the Roman Empire as well for 400 years. So, we fit into those larger narratives too.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That is really interesting. And tell us about how you got involved with the Wythenshawe History Group and you were talking about Northenden, for example, being mentioned in the Doomsday Book, and that's so interesting as well. And because I have listeners from 40 countries, please do explain what the Doomsday Book is.

Dr. Stephen Evans: Sure. Shall I start with my involvement in the history group? Okay, so it started with a haircut. I was having my haircut in a local Northenden barber and there was a chap there and he was having his haircut too and he was talking about how Wythenshawe was once, (up to 1931), part of North Cheshire.

And what he had to say was really, really interesting. And of course, you know, being passionate about history, my ears pricked up because it's not the usual talk about football you know, conversations, you know, on makes of car that you’d expect at the local barber’s. So I was listening to him and I began just chipping in, you know, and discussing it with him and, a lovely man, his name's Eric, Eric Booth, he’s become a close friend of mine…. And Eric told me, well, if you're interested in the local history and what's going on in Wythenshawe, you should come to the Wythenshawe History group and up to that moment, I'd never even heard of the  Wythenshawe History Group.

He said, ‘We meet at the Forum Library on a Monday evening. Just come along and you'll find like-minded people. And there's also lots of documentation. archive material relating to Wythenshawe . So I took him up on the invitation and I went the following week. And I've stayed, you know, I've just really enjoyed it, met lots of lovely people in the group who are equally passionate about the history, but very community facing, you know. They have that passion and like Eric want to share that. It's so infectious that they want to share it with people. And I think one of the remits, and you know, I became Chair about two years after that and it's been part of our remit, to ensure that people who are moving, you know, new to the area get opportunities to find out about the background to the area they've moved in to, so they get a sense of place, you know, they get a sense of context, a feeling of belonging.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That is actually, (sorry to come in there,) but, I should mention I came to the Wythenshawe Forum, to the Simons’ exhibition with my parents over the summer. It was wonderful to read about, you know, how Wythenshawe was formed and how that Garden City came out of the, almost the slums, of the shanty towns of Manchester during the Industrial Period. I assume your group maybe was involved with that.

Dr. Stephen Evans:  The exhibition relating to, Lord and Lady Simon, Ernest and Sheena Simon was the result of fantastic work by other people, who, you know, deservedly needed that big space and a protracted exhibition time for it. It was absolutely fascinating and the way they'd used the archive materials and the way they displayed them in very accessible chunks.  And you could see the amount of work and research, that had gone into it. It was fascinating.  I kept returning to it, you know, over a period of a month just to look at it. And, uh, that is exactly what we needed. And it has a legacy benefit too, because of course, that material will be available for the people in the area. So yeah, I totally admire that exhibition.

There's also nearby, you may have seen the World of Wythenshawe Wall with the mural, where you start off with I think it starts, Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, et cetera, all the way up to the Industrial Revolution and beyond, the creation of the estate. That's been up for a long time as well. And that's very, yeah, last time it looked, it was on the ground floor, WOW exhibition, the World of, Wythenshawe Wall which charts its history and, if you have a scanner on your phone, there's little parts of it that you can scan on the wall and it comes up with more information. And that was a Heritage lottery initiative maybe six years ago now, which again, has that legacy benefit.

So, those two were not ours, but they fit in entirely, with the ethos and our outlook -on being able to present to people who are new to the area and people who have lived here all their lives who totally don't know the history of the area because it's never been presented to them.

They may have gone to school and didn't know what was on their doorstep literally, for them, and I think it's a great way of community building, saying ‘Please, you are now part of our narrative. You know, you are part of this big never-ending story and you are going to weave your own thread into this rich tapestry, bringing your life experiences from other countries, from other areas of Britain into play, that you are going to be the history for future generations, they'll be coming back and wanting to know your story, wanting to know about your experience. So it is always a never-ending story that's built upon, generation after generation.

And that's where we are now. So we can add our voices to the story..

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I really like that about history being a never-ending story and how new and existing people in the area or local residents are actually contributing to future history. I mean, we don't think of that perspective sometimes and that is really interesting, and looking forward to learning more.

Dr. Stephen Evans: As  will this podcast…

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That's true. Somebody who wants to hear about Mancunian some centuries from now or some years from now, might look back and, learn about what's all the good work that’s happened here.

Let's actually ask you about, you know, the history of the local area. Tell us a little bit about that. Not too long, because it is a short podcast, but if you could summarise in a couple of minutes, take us through a speed tour of, you know, Wythenshawe and Northenden area. That would be lovely.

Dr. Stephen Evans: Okay. So Wythenshawe is a very old community. It was mentioned in the Doomsday Book, the Doomsday survey of 1086, which was conducted by William the Conqueror the very first Norman king who defeated the Anglo-Saxons, which was probably, you know, the big, big cultural invasion of 1066 and all that. Well, when he took the land, he ordered a giant audit, a survey of everything he owned, so he knew the value of everything. Then he could distribute this to other people, his followers. Also, he could raise taxes on the richer areas as well.

So, you know, Northenden is mentioned and it's interesting that, you know, people will tell you that in the Doomsday book he mentions that something like a town like Northenden was worth 10 shillings. A lot of money in those days, 10 shillings- before the Norman invasion, but since the Norman invasion had been devalued to two shillings because of the destruction and the loss of population for various reasons around here.

So this is very much a rural area consisting of three parishes, Northenden, Baguley and Northen Etchells. They're the three main areas and townships of this area, which carries on all the way up to the 20th century. If you'd asked somebody a hundred years ago, (if you had a time machine, you went back in, you asked someone, you know), you stepped out of that time machine, you’d find you're in North Cheshire.

We're not part of Lancashire. Not until 1931. So until then, everything is run by Bucklow Council, and the appointments of teachers, the appointments of the local constabulary all come from  Chester. And so we are very south-looking.

So what changes? Well, as you know, our neighbours across the river,- Manchester- have experienced the total opposite. Were a rural community, but for the past 300 years, starting with the 1780’s industrialisation, it's become the powerhouse of the UK. it's become the cradle of the Industrial Revolution, and it created fantastic profits, but it also created great misery. Lots of health issues, high mortality rates. A miserable gray area unless you were one of the beneficiaries. The beneficiaries moved over to Northenden; the professional classes wanted to escape that horrible murkiness and miasma created by industrial Manchester, but didn't want to move too far because they needed to commute into there. So Northenden was the perfect spot.

So that's when we start having Northenden start to grow. And from the 1850s onwards becomes a place where the big houses are being built. People commute, and there was even a 7:30 PM postal service created because people could come from the city, The professionals could answer their mail and still then send off their postage.

Later on, following the First World War, Manchester needed to expand. It needed to clear its slum houses. There was a legal duty on the Council to sort that out. So what you get is the Council, the Corporation looking for a new place to move. For one reason or another, they selected this area which of course, would become modern Wythenshawe. 

Of course, there was resistance by Cheshire. Cheshire didn't want them. They saw it as an invasion, an encroachment. In 1926, the Simons purchased most of Wythenshawe Hall, and the council purchased most of the Wythenshawe Estate. However, that wasn't enough to start building houses on because they wanted to start building houses and moving people from the slums into somewhere which was rural, clean air, and healthy living. They still had the same obligations as anyone that owns a house in Cheshire. So if they wanted to build houses en masse --, they wanted to build 50,000 houses-, they had to go to Bucklow and Cheshire County Council who were resistant, they were so resistant that in the end from 50,000 houses, they were only able to build 146.

So something had to be done at the national level. It was the first example of Manchester creating a lobby group. It's the first example of lobbying in this country, and they lobbied for the transfer of land from Cheshire into Lancashire,  for which of course the natural border had always been the river Mersey. Everything south of the Mersey, more or less, (there were exceptions), was Cheshire land. Cheshire resisted, but in the end, the bill was passed and from midnight, 1931 this North Cheshire, this part of, parcel of North Cheshire land became part of Lancashire and Manchester.

And from then on we get the building, the construction of the large estates, plus the industrial estates to employ people that were living down here. And that gradual expansion has become Wythenshawe. So now we have a population of roughly 85,000 people which during the day with the huge employers in the area, (which is the hospital -Wythenshawe Hospital, and of course the airport,) rises to roughly 115,000 daily.

But the population, as in residents, is steadily increasing and we're around the 85,000 stage, which is larger than Chester, Winchester, lots of cities and larger than towns like Bury. So you've got this district of Manchester, which is larger than most cities. It's a very, very interesting, dynamic place we live in. So it's really, you know, to document that and to know that, there's a fine tradition.

Lots. I think like, again, going back to schools, if you ask lots of people in the area who moved here, and I know you've probably asked lots of people who've moved in, their experience of leaving the slums of Hulme. not so much Hulme, but like Ancoats,  Beswick, those central Manchester places and moving into Manchester and in the 1940s and onwards and, you know, it was a sea change for them. Asked lots of people, later generations, they just think that Wythenshawe began in the 1950s and it's just a gray area. There was no history before that.

And I think it was part of that education program that the History group and other groups try to set the bounds, set the records straight, that there's much to our history, there's much to our culture here, and also it builds a healthy respect for the area to know that it's more than just grayness.

And to find out about the communities that lived here and what was it like to live here and to find parallels with the present generation. and what previous generations have experienced, and sometimes it's very, very easy to look at the Tatton family in Wythenshawe Hall and the Massey family onwards that lived in Baguley Hall, and the Edgertons that were kind of connected here and the great and the good, but also there's the social history.

What would it be like to have been a tenant farmer? Or to be a carpenter or to be a woman in service here, or a woman that had to work in the industrial laundry in Northenden.. And to chart these histories too and find those parallels.

So I know Friends of Baguley Hall, Friends of Wythenshawe Hall, they do a tremendous job in the high-profile history, regarding those buildings and the families and the dynasties. (Note to listeners – You can listen to the episode featuring Libby Edwards from Friends of Baguley Hall and Friends of Wythenshawe Hall here. https://www.meetthemancunian.co.uk/meet-the-mancunian-libby-edwards/)

But of course, it's also the charting of the smaller narratives, you know, the lives of the ordinary as well, which again, is a project in itself because you have to really go researching and scrambling about to find much more about these people.

It's out there, but it does take time and that's why I would urge people if want to join Wythenshawe History Group, to come along, and become a volunteer. We've got lots of interesting resources. We've got a photographic archive as well to help us chart that social history. And even if it's at the moment being just willing to, speak and give a  living history and talk about your experience, you know, to be interviewed, recording for sound archives about what it was like to move into Wythenshawe.

And then, you know, if you had a grandmother, a grandfather that lived here, but also to help us go through documents which are stretching down to the 16th century on and upwards to find out what it was like for ordinary people to live here.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That's really fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing and the shout-out to listeners is that if they could come forward and either volunteer to be part of the history group or contribute a living history to the archives, it will be great.

Tell us about any challenges that you've faced on this journey.  Is there something you'd like to call out that you've been able to successfully navigate and therefore, other listeners might get inspired by?

Dr. Stephen Evans: I think it's being very aware of time limitations and being realistic in the goals you set yourself. I think that that's the first thing. It's great to have ambitions and have goals, but I think it's better to work on focused projects that will have an impact.

So it's looking at the smaller projects, which will have the bigger impact rather than this overreaching, gigantic project, which does sound great on paper.  But it requires lots of planning, lots of resourcing. You might not have that, so it's best to start and then grow gradually so you can achieve maybe the bigger, bigger picture. But the bigger project can also consist of smaller, tiny projects that build into the bigger project. So I would say, tiny steps further first until you're able to, to reach the bigger goal.

The second thing I think is organising community support for initiatives. And I think it's really important that before you go ahead with a big idea, that you consult your community and find out if that's what they really want, that's really their idea of what they want from it. Or they may have better ideas, they may have a better project in mind.

And I think it's so important to have grassroots support. Because with the best will in the world, if you go ahead with a project where you haven't enlisted grassroots support and it's not what the people in that community want, it's not going to work. It's going to be limited. But if you go and have a conversation with the community, you know, ‘What would you like here? maybe history-wise, what aspects of history would you like to cover? What would you be willing to put your time in? If there are certain skills that we can teach or you could learn along the way as part of the project, what would those skills be?

And going then with this and having a list of people that come and help and support it and talking with other organisations in the area who could support what our grassroots community wants. Then go looking for funding, then go doing the planning. I think that's so important to do rather than come in top-heavy and try and graft the project. Just because a project works in North Manchester doesn't mean it's necessarily going to work in South Manchester because every community has its own dynamic and its own interest and its own needs.

And I think that's a universal application across the board worldwide. If you're always set, if you're going to set a project together, make sure of this, the demand at the grassroots level.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I really like that. And those are such actionable and practical tips that any community group, even outside of history groups, could consider.

So thank you for sharing those and thank you for talking about how you applied them.

What impact would you say you made as the Wythenshawe History Group? And you can dimensionalise this any way you like.

Dr. Stephen Evans: I think the impact is legacy. I think, you know what, we try to get people interested or signpost them to other history resources, being welcoming, being there for people that may want to research about their family history, or they may want to find out more about their background.

We have lots of interest from what we call expats. You know, people are no longer in Wythenshawe but are still interested in what's going on in Wythenshawe, and they send us information about the history of the area. They're very supportive, but they may have a query or a question that they can't remember something from their childhood in  Wythenshawe and ask us you know to help them with. So I think, you know, I've run guided walks around Northenden and I think it's just flying the flag for history and just saying it's, you know, it's really important that we learn about our area and our community to pass that on to people. I think the exhibitions that we've put on are part of that.  We're presently looking at transport through the ages in the area. We have looked at the different buildings that have disappeared since 1931 in the area and did a project on that.

So everything that we create then is archive material for the future. And again,  it’s just asking people to come along and thinking that there are the social aspects of joining an organisation and group as well. It's good for your well-being. It's good to socialise and to have a chat about history, at the same time, meeting people from different backgrounds, different experiences, and finding what we've all got in common. So I think that's a legacy. The benefit has a kind of well-being, knock-on effect, as well as an educational one.

See it as a giant hobby or an interest and knowing that there's people that share that and can contribute to the cataloguing , and organisation of the archives. We're always short of people to come along and help us organise ,and bring your skills or, you know, as precious your time. Because I know time is a precious commodity for lots of people.

But to come along and know that it's your history, you know, we are not just curators and guardians of it and building a wall around it. It's there for you. It's, you know, we are here to kind of say, here it is, it's your history. Come along and, um, help us because it's yours and be part of that journey together.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe:  That is a really powerful impact. Because like you said, you know, it is about that local history and exploring the roots of where people come from. And it sounds really interesting.

Where can interested people reach out to you and learn more about  Wythenshawe  History group?

Dr. Stephen Evans: Yeah, so, people can come along to the meetings and come to the first floor Wythenshawe Forum Library, which is known as the reference library. There's a classroom, a large classroom inside there, and that's where the History group meet. At present, it's six-fifteen to about quarter to eight in the evening, that they meet. And you'll have access to maps of the area, documents of the area photographic images of the area as well, which are fascinating, where you compare then and now, to see what's changed, but what hasn't changed.

So that's a really good way to meet us -- the time may change to afternoon meetings because autumn and winter with the light failing quite early in the day now.  But that's something that we will announce. So just look out in the library or on social media, for any notification of a change in time. Yeah, we don't, we don't have a website, but if you type in Wythenshawe  History group, on Twitter or Wythenshawe History Group on Facebook, you'll find us.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I think I follow the Facebook group and I love seeing the old pictures. It's always very interesting. You did address a lot of great areas, but in case you want to add any more advice, what advice would you have for people looking to start a similar movement in another part of the world or another part of the U K.So if they want to get involved with the local history group, but they want to set up a local history group. What advice would you have?

Dr. Stephen Evans: Yeah, I think just start with finding out what's out there in your area, because you don't always want to reinvent the wheel and duplicate work that's already there.

So see if there is an existing history group. If there isn't, I would say go down to the nearest library. and there'll be people there that will, I'm sure, try to, help you with that interest and just see if you could start a group up that can meet in that library.

Lots of libraries will give you facilities there. Hopefully at no cost.  I say a library because you are nearest then to a history section, you know, which is then free access to the books there. But there's nothing to stop you perhaps meeting as a small group and building up through meeting at home, it could be meeting in a local building, you know, it could be a public building where you want to meet up. It could be a cafe, could be over a coffee somewhere, a cup of tea. And I think it's just taking those steps. See if you can, I think most people do use social media, also the old way as well. Maybe print some leaflets out, see if there are interested people out there, fellow interest, you know, people that are interested in setting up a history group.

Don't try and do it alone. It's very taxing, and very time intensive. And get a group of people, and form a committee. And, set out what you want to do in those first steps. And it might just be accessing information in your area. It might be trying to maybe work with a school that may have a history section and are looking for people to tell the children what it was like about life. 20, 30 years ago in their community, they might want you to be a living history and go in and just, talk about history, to people.

So that might be one in a very general way, because I know around the world it's going to differ when I say something like going to your local library. There may be listeners out there are going to scoff at that and say, well, you know, my nearest library is 200 miles away.

So, I would say then, well, you know, perhaps you could start compiling an online library where perhaps it could be something as simple as creating an archive of material that's local to you, scanning material, typing and or relating on a website, your area and its history.

You might say, well, we don't even have access to the internet where I am, it’s always sporadic, and I'd say one really important thing you could be doing then is if you have access to a recorder, a tape recorder, or you have access to a shorthand, you know you can take notes, is to ask people in your community to relate their stories. And to talk about the history of their area and their own living histories and start compiling your own archive for the future.

 So, there's a point that you can do with the resources at hand. You know, that you can be doing low tech or high tech.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I like it very much, because you're covering so many options with a broad brush and hopefully listeners will listen, will pick up on that useful hint you’ve made about possible alternatives to using a library.

Before I go to my signature question, I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about anything coming up, that maybe you want to share.  There is, of course, the opening of the Wythenshawe Hall,  pretty soon.  We did interview them on a separate podcast, so you know, you could just talk about things that are more focused on the History Group. And if you wish to talk about the Now Forever  Heritage, it is another opportunity for you.

Dr. Stephen Evans: I run a community, I run two community interest groups, um,  So, they're not, they're nonprofits, not for profits. One is relating to history and heritage. So, the first one's called Now Forever Heritage CIC. So one of the projects we ran, uh, has been the, uh, highly successful commemoration of the First World War in Northenden which was funded by the Heritage lottery.  So that ran for 18 months. And, we were able to create 12 portraits of people in the community, men and women of the community of 1914 to 1918. And we held an exhibition at the mess. The message is in Charleston and with presentations and school involvement all through that year with school children taking living histories from older members of the community regarding the First and Second World War.

So that's something we've achieved; plus the guided walks have been done under that umbrella. And also the Peterloo celebrations were organized by us, you know, parts of it. We helped in a big way to organize the commemoration of Peterloo, a couple of years back now, as Now Forever Heritage.

The other sister one which is Together One CIC, does have connections with heritage and history, but not to an extent. We didn't want to kind of merge the streams and confuse people. But we do,  as a quick look, we do run the community cinema at the block in Northenden.

But turning back to history and heritage, we do give presentations through there as well, and you'll be able to find us again through Twitter and social media and thank you for that opportunity.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: You're very welcome. And it's great to hear about all the opportunities in the area because as a new resident of Wythenshawe and Manchester, I'm still learning and I'm always taking mental notes through my guests as I hear about all the good things going on,

I now move to my favorite part of the podcast, which is the signature questions that I ask all my guests.

And the first one is, Can you describe Manchester in a word or a phrase?

Dr. Stephen Evans: Dynamic.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I like it.

Which Mancunian are you most inspired by and why?

Dr. Stephen Evans: Oh, goodness me. That's such a hard question, that .

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe:  I'm happy for you to pick one from, living or dead, so you can go for a historical Mancunian as well.

Dr. Stephen Evans: That's such a difficult question because, there's such a wealth of people…. I'll go for Arthur Royal, he's not a household name, but what Arthur did, he lived in Manchester. He lived in Northenden; he was the bank manager of the local bank. But what he did was something incredible, he was a magpie. He collected what most of us would think of as rubbish. He collected tram tickets, empty cigarette packets, empty match boxes. And people said, ‘Arthur, goodness me, why are you collecting such dross?’ And he created such a legacy of items. Now, you know, what we probably call ephemera. but they are so vital now; they are so important that we have concrete items and not just words in a book. So, from the 1920s to the 1970s, he collected pamphlets, booklets.

He was also instrumental in naming many of the roads and streets in Wythenshawe as it was being built, based on his local, his historical knowledge. He was a member of Northenden Civic Society. He bequeathed his huge collection to the Society. It was catalogued by Manchester Metropolitan University and Wythenshawe History group is currently curating it, awaiting, a proper, cataloguing and digitising of it.

He was a real community-facing man. He created the Northenden Amateur  Dramatic society, which is now Northenden Players.

So, the man promoted culture. And also he created the Rosemary Fund, which had two presets. One, that no senior member of the community should be without fuel in winter. And secondly, that no child should go without a holiday. So, he used to have Rosemary fundraising events. The money was spent on those two purposes, and importantly, when the new estate was built, because he was from Northenden, when the new estate was built, the remit of the Rosemary Fund expanded for all the people in Wythenshawe as well. So, he was a bridge between the old and the new and welcomed the new estate. It was very important that, after the acrimony of the purchase and the acquisition of this land, that some of that acrimony you know, and old battles and fights were set aside and everyone was future looking.

And Arthur Royal was instrumental in that. Hats off to Arthur Royal as my Mancunian hero.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Love it…this is really great to share and thank you for sharing that. And, I do feel like I need to sign up for one of your walks and come to learn a little bit about local history And like you said, it's not just about the famous people, it's about the people whose everyday heroes are unsung heroes. So I look forward to learning more.

What's the most important life lesson you've learned? And this is for you individually/personally, not as the Chair in this case.

Dr. Stephen Evans:  Be a good listener! That is an acquired skill and it's a really difficult skill. Instead of just bumping my gums all the time and talking, to step back and listen to the other person and give that person lots of space and time to express themselves and be very patient while you are waiting for them to articulate a response.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that. That is true. It's a very hard skill and obviously one that, as a communications professional and now as a podcaster, I'm trying to continue to hone, but it is hard because sometimes we listen to respond. Rather than listen to really give that really thoughtful response after you've considered, you've given that person the space.

Dr. Stephen Evans: I find it's something that maybe, medical practitioners, people working in the mental health services, acquire and really train up to, to be as part of that therapeutic side, to be a really good listener and to listen and to listen. You know, some people listen but don't hear. But to listen and hear.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: And I think it comes down to making the person feel comfortable with articulating their thoughts and not feel like they're under time pressure to, you know, come up with that punchline. So that's really, really good.

If you could be granted one superpower, what would it be?

Dr. Stephen Evans: I think the superpower would be just, I'd say, the ability really to work, to have my work time kind of balanced by my non-work time and to find that happy medium, far quicker than it took me to realize, to think that, to compensate for the amount of time to put in, to go to compensate with time with friends and family as well. So my superpower would be like most superpowers and superheroes are, there's always a compensation. They always have their weak spot, for mine to be covered, that when I'm actively creating and working, to actually have the power to realise  there's other priorities in life and to prioritise, you know, and there are people that need your time as much. And that's of course your friend, your friends, your family, your children.

And that's my, my superpower then, to action that.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much. That is a hard one, I know, for any busy person, but thank you for sharing and I really like that one.

I'm at the end of the podcast now, Stephen. So, thank you so much for talking to me and my listeners. It's been fascinating.

Dr. Stephen Evans: An absolute pleasure. It is an absolute pleasure, and thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

Outro

Stephen, thank you so much for talking to me and my listeners. I really enjoyed learning about local history today. Dear listeners. Thank you so much for listening to the first episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, Season Four.

I hope this episode and the podcast itself encourages you to follow your passion inspired by the amazing Mancunian guests who feature here. Tune in every Tuesday for a new episode or log on to www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to listen to all the episodes and learn more about my podcasting story.

Next week on Tuesday 29 November, 2022, Meet the Mancunian talks to Natalie Rossiter about well-being and forest therapy.

Please do leave me a review or a voice message on my website, www.meet the mancunian.co.uk. It takes only a few minutes. Thank you.