Meet the Mancunian - Talking supporting mental health for menopause with Ruth Rosselson

Meet the Mancunian-6.11- Ruth Rosselson – transcript

Intro

Hello and a warm Mancunian welcome to all my incredible listeners out there. I'm Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe, your friendly host, and you've just tuned in to the sixth season of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, where I share remarkable social impact stories from the heart of Manchester, every Tuesday throughout the season.

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Welcome to the 11th episode of Season 6 of the Meet the Mancunian Podcast, social impact stories from Manchester.

Passionate about supporting menopause and mental health, we hear from Ruth Rosselson, Resilience Coordinator, Manchester Mind in this episode.

Episode 6.11

[00:02:50] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I'm delighted to introduce my guest, Ruth Rosselson, Resilience Coordinator, Manchester Mind. Thank you so much, Ruth, for taking the time on a Tuesday evening.

[00:02:59] Ruth Rosselson: Hi, Deepa. Thank you. And thanks for inviting me onto your podcast. Really excited to be here.

[00:03:04] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Tell us about how you found your passion for mental health and mindfulness.

[00:03:08] Ruth Rosselson: I'm 52 now, so it depends how far back you want to go. When I was a teenager, I was really convinced I wanted to be a psychologist, and in fact that is what I studied at university. I was just fascinated by people. by what made them tick, by when things didn't go right for people, and also positive psychology elements, how things could go right for them. But then after university, I didn't end up doing anything to do with psychology for a very long time, actually.

I was a journalist. I worked in marine conservation. But along the way, when I was in my early 30s, I developed a kind of arthritis, an autoimmune arthritis called palindromic rheumatism. So from being a kind of fit and healthy, a young woman, suddenly I was struck with a disability. I was living it with a lot of chronic pain.

Bits of my body weren't working like they used to. And painkillers didn't really make any difference. And I remember going to the doctor, going to the GP and just being really in despair and saying, I really need some help with pain management. And the GP (general practitioner) said I'm really sorry, but we can't send you on a pain management course until you've tried all the pain management medication, which seemed a bit like the wrong way around to me.

So I found myself on a mindfulness course and that was run by an organisation also in Manchester called Breathworks. And I did a mindfulness for health course and a mindfulness for stress course. And it did quite literally change my life in all sorts of different ways.

So I came to meditation and mindfulness, which are two different things, in a way, if we can separate them out. And it really helped me manage and cope with my pain. I remember just the difference it started to make at the beginning in moving me towards accepting my new body and my new situation.

And I also found it wasn't just for helping with the bad times, but actually made me enjoy the good times more. I was able to be really more enthusiastic about things and more patient. And I think overall, I really noticed the impact, when I practiced regularly, which I didn't always, how much of a difference it made to my life.

The other thing I really noticed was that whenever I went to the rheumatologist, they would ask me how the medication was, how my pain was, how the swelling was. They never asked me about my mental health. They never asked me how I was coping. They never really seemed to be concerned about my mental health at all.

[00:06:01] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much for sharing that and I always really like it when guests are sharing lived experiences because it feels very authentic and, very relatable. We've all had our own challenges.

You said something very interesting to me, which was mindfulness and meditation are not quite the same. Do you want to share with listeners what are the differences?

[00:06:23] Ruth Rosselson: Just very briefly, there are lots of different kinds of meditation. So let's say that first of all, a mindfulness meditation is just one kind of meditation. It's what I would say is a formal practice, so whether it's a seated meditation or a moving meditation, like mindful walking or mindful yoga, it's a practice, it's something very formal that you set aside time to do.

But you can be mindful in anything that you're doing, it doesn't have to be a formal meditation. So I would say being mindful is something you can do in every day, at any time, bringing yourself to the present moment- being in the body, I would say. But meditation itself, I would say, is something you set time aside to do, whether it's two minutes, five minutes, 45 minutes.

The practice of meditation is what helps us be more mindful in everyday life because it's really hard. So it's hard to just be mindful when you decide to do it. I found myself at a concert and I'm already thinking about what I've got to do the next day at work. What makes it easier to be in that concert with the music and the people is the time that I put aside to meditate formally. It trains the brain so that we can be more mindful in our everyday life.

[00:07:41] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I like that very much about training the brain, and making the space to be present in the moment in daily life.

How did you get involved with Manchester Mind and what does Manchester Mind do?

[00:07:54] Ruth Rosselson: In a period of my life, when I was working as a freelance trainer and life coach. I ended up putting together some courses for people living with long term conditions like me which included all sorts of elements around positive psychology and some mindfulness and some peer support. But it was really difficult as an individual to get any funding. It was really it wasn't something I wanted to make money from, but I also needed to make a living.

And a job appeared, miraculously, for an organisation, a charity called Manchester Mind. I saw a job advert for a resilience coordinator, and they wanted someone with lived experience of a chronic health condition to deliver a program called Building a Healthy Future. And that was aimed at people with long term conditions like myself, it was a six week course included elements of meditation, mindfulness, relaxation, positive psychology, cognitive behaviour therapy and I was employed to do that nine years ago.

I then trained to deliver mindfulness programs as well, so I deliver our eight week Mindfulness for Stress course, and then three years ago I developed a program that was unique to us that nobody else was running, which was a mindfulness program for women in perimenopause and menopause, because I decided that the techniques that had helped me with my pain and ill health and unpredictable energy levels was really relevant to menopause.

I could see so many crossovers. So I put that course together and as I said I've couldn't see anybody else in the country offering something exactly like that. That's what most of my job is now, delivering mindfulness for menopause courses, but I do other workshops and sessions as well.

But what I do is only a small amount of all the amazing work that Manchester Mind does. We've got counsellors for adults and for young people. We have a lot of student counsellors as part of their training. They have to get a certain number of hours. So we're able to offer counselling services to people.

One of the things that we do, which is really important is our advice service, and unfortunately it's often oversubscribed because so many people are struggling and need help with benefits and getting the money that's actually theirs that they need to stay well and to live.

And unfortunately that process is really challenging for everybody actually. But if you've got mental health challenges, it's even more challenging to work through all of the bureaucracy. So we've got a really great advice team who are there to help people with the process with appeals with various different benefit issues.

We've got other projects. We've got an allotment in in Chorlton that grows its own vegetables and we have volunteers that help out there. And as we know, being outside in nature is really beneficial for mental health. We run peer support groups. So these are really great groups for people to just get together and support each other.

They're facilitated by staff members, but we also have volunteers who help facilitate these peer support groups. And some of those are online and some of them are in person. So we have some training that we offer to organisations. Paid for training. And there are various other services that we are commissioned to deliver by Greater Manchester Mental Health as well.

So we've got all sorts of different things on offer for people, often some online support as well in terms of information that's on our website too. So we're here to serve the people of Manchester through our work and through lots of different things. Happily, my menopause project is actually funded to run for anyone in Greater Manchester.

Not just Manchester City, but Stockport, Salford, Rochdale, Tameside, Oldham, or anyone in the Greater Manchester area can come on the menopause courses, just as long as they are in perimenopause or going through that menopause journey.

[00:11:51] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that Ruth, and both Manchester Mind's variety of services that it offers to help with mental health and support mental health and of course the Mindfulness for Menopause program that you have recently started.

Have there been some challenges that you faced on this journey of introducing mindfulness for menopause?

[00:12:15] Ruth Rosselson: I think one of the challenges is It's just about making sure people know what they've signed up to. Often when people see that a course is free and they see the word menopause, they think I'm going to be talking about HRT and alternative methods to help support and don't always read what it is that we're doing.

So that can be a challenge with any kind of course that we run. Since I've been delivering that course in the last three years, it's just been really popular just because there hasn't been anything else quite like it on offer before. And I know that people going through menopause feel unsupported, they feel confused, they feel anxious where maybe they've never been anxious before, kind of mood is low and it's a challenging time of life as well.

It has been easier than I expected actually In that respect to sell the idea and to get people to come on the courses as well. As I said, I think because the course is free, we also get people who sign up who then can't come, don't come. It's a shame because we have places that we could offer someone who wants to attend. But I think that's par for the course with the kind of work that we do anyway. So I'd say those have been the kind of challenges.

I think one of my personal challenges is, I want to do it all. I want to run lots of courses a week. I want to run my course for people with long term health conditions. I want to run general mindfulness courses, but because of my physical health I only do work part time, so my frustration is I can't do more than I do. But I have to take care so that I don't get flare ups of my arthritis and my fatigue, which I can do.

[00:13:54] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Absolutely. And I think I can totally relate to that. There's lots of things, volunteering or podcasting that I'd love to do more of. But again, it's that balance and just making sure you're looking after yourself. And that's a lesson hard learned for myself. So definitely one I can relate to.

Who are the people who benefit? People who are peri menopausal or menopausal, but is there anything else you can tell us about people who come to the course? Are they from particular walks of life or any other characteristics that may unite them?

[00:14:30] Ruth Rosselson: I think age is obviously common, but actually we do have some women who've had a surgical menopause so they're into menopause a lot earlier than some of their peers, so they may be in their late 30s and or only early 40s so I think that's that was surprising, something I didn't really expect.

We've had different people from all sorts of different kind of professions, different areas across Manchester and I think really the thing that, that kind of draws them in common is that, they've got these challenges. Not everybody's symptoms are the same, not everybody's menopause experience is the same, not everybody's cultural or economic background is the same. But what they share is a real desire to be able to manage better, to cope better, to feel a little bit more in control at a time of life which can feel quite out of control sometimes, quite unpredictable.

Some of my courses have been in person and some of them have been on Zoom and one of the challenges, I think is this going to work on Zoom? Are people going to bond in the same way that they might do in real life? And I have been surprised that, they have, they've been in different areas, even different areas of the country or different ages, different backgrounds, but they've bonded and supported each other.

So that has been really lovely to see. What I also know is that the course is not going to help people who don't turn up or who don't put some time aside to practice. So I always say every day if you can, or more days on than off because I know that, realistically, not everybody's going to set 20 minutes aside every day.

But when we've looked at our analysis at the end of the courses, the people who haven't really engaged with the meditation practices themselves don't tend to see as much difference from attending the course as those who really embrace the practices or the kind of setting the time aside for themselves to look after themselves, to put themselves first.

But even some of the little I call them rescue remedies, real calming practices that can only take sometimes only two minutes do seem to help most people who come on the course. What I would say is that the courses are not going to help people whose depression is really bad, who are really struggling to function on a day-to-day basis, because what we do know about mindfulness is you need to engage with it and it can be really hard to engage with it if your depression is really extremely severe.

So I tend to talk to everybody before a course comes on just to get an understanding of where they are in their own kind of mental health journey and own menopause journey so that we can prepare people about what to expect.

And I can caution, it's not going to make everything all right. It's not going to change all of your symptoms and make them go away so we can be realistic about what to expect. But I have been surprised by some of the feedback and some of the difference that the courses have made.

[00:17:31] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much for sharing that, Ruth, and that brings me very well to the impact you made.

Can you tell us over the last three years that you've been going, what impact have you made? You made some reference to the fact that people have seen some significant benefit, but if you can share some either individual experiences or if you want to provide any other kind of response to what impact have you made?

[00:17:56] Ruth Rosselson: We send out some questionnaires at the start of a course and at the end, so we're able to measure things. We send out questionnaires around well being and mood, around stress, around the level of the menopause symptoms that they're experiencing, and their ability to manage the menopause symptoms.

What we found in general is that the majority of women who come on the course, and I'm talking 80 percent and upwards their mood does tend to improve overall, so they feel happier in themselves. Their sense of well being is greater. Around 80-85 percent of those who've been on the course, their stress levels have gone down.

A lot of them report that the symptoms are not bothering them as much. So for some people, their symptoms are actually empirically less. I'm getting fewer hot flushes, for example, and some of them might say the symptoms are the same, but they don't impact me as much. I'm not as bothered by them. I was not as affected by them.

And the majority of women, 90 percent, say they feel better able to manage the menopause and the transition. That has been, really wonderful to see. And I think there was a comment of a woman on the last course, which kind of really sums it up. And these aren't her exact words, but she said something like, even though nothing outside of me has changed, inside of me, everything's different. And I think that kind of says it all.

So mindfulness doesn't make our stress go away. Meditation doesn't mean that our workload is less, for example. Or even that pain goes away, but what it does do is it enables us to accept it better so that it doesn't impact on us in the same way. It enables us to relax more and to not react as much.

We're not as reactive. We're not as angry or impatient or frustrated. It turns the dial down on some of those things. So I know that from mindful research across, we look at mindful research into mindful courses, but being able to see it firsthand with women going through the menopause has been really amazing actually.

[00:20:01] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that and It does sound like you made a huge impact. It's really impressive all the things that you were able to share through the research and the feedback.

So how can interested people reach out to you and learn more? Where can they find the website? Where can they know more about the courses? Is there any social media?

[00:20:22] Ruth Rosselson: Yes https://www.manchestermind.org/our-services/wellbeing-hub/menopause-and-mental-health/ is where some of the information is, but our menopause program is actually managed in in a partnership with Greater Manchester Mind, so Mind's in Greater Manchester includes Stockport, Salford, Tameside, Oldham and Glossop, and Rochdale.

We're all offering different menopause programs actually. And all of the information about all of the different menopause offers are on the https://www.gmmind.org.uk/menopause-project/.

There's links to the upcoming courses up there, so I'm running a Zoom course. I'm running a course in Levenshulme in October, which is going to be in person and I really love running courses in person. It's just nice to be in the same space as people and see the bonds and be part of their journey.

I learn as much each time, as they do in a way. I always thought that was a bit cheesy when I heard mindfulness teachers say that, and then when I became a mindfulness teacher, I was like, no, it's actually true.

Manchester Mind, we've got our own Twitter, we're across all the socials at, at Manchester Mind, so we're easy to find. I have my own Twitter, Ruth Russellson. So I'm on that and various other social media platforms.

[00:21:31] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you, and I'll definitely include both links in the show notes as well, so anybody listening to the episode can hear it.

Thank you. What advice do you have for people looking to start a similar movement in their local community, maybe in another part of the world or another part of the UK?

[00:21:48] Ruth Rosselson: I think finding out if people want it is quite important. So I did some research into that first of all. I guess it depends what it is that people want to offer.

There are mindfulness courses on offer across the country. So it's really important to be an accredited mindfulness teacher to start off with, and there are various things you have to do for us to get to that point. But I think what's really nice and what we are seeing across the country is different things like menopause cafes which, you don't need necessarily qualifications to get people together for peer support, for sharing of information, sharing support, sharing stories.

I think social media is a great way, menopause with a hashtag. You can see so much on social media. I think it's really hit the zeitgeist in the last few years. But whether it's menopause, whether it's, offering peer support for people who are in pain or people who just wanna talk it's about making connections on a human level with other people.

I think that's a really important thing. That's how you find the people. You make the connections, you're passionate, you're authentic. I don't think anybody's going to want to take advice about meditation from someone who doesn't meditate, for example.

And I think that you mentioned earlier lived experience. I think lived experience is really important. Whatever someone is passionate about, if you're passionate about it, if you're yourself and it's to build it and they will come and that's what we've seen with this program.

[00:23:16] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that and those are all really great tips and I particularly like the one about see if it's really required because listen to the community and take feedback. I think that was really relevant.

An opportunity now for you to talk about anything I haven't asked you about anything coming up in the next three months, let's say autumn.

[00:23:38] Ruth Rosselson: As I said, I'm running a course on Zoom. I'm running one in person in Levenshulme. I also offer 90 minute Mindfulness for Menopause Tasters, and Mind in Salford, are also delivering this. So people can contact me or Salford, and the contacts are on the GM Minds website to say, come to our organisation.

We can offer a 90 minute taster around the course. So that can be a really good way in for people to see, is this for me? Is this useful? Is this something that chimes with what I want to learn? So as long as long as we get enough people. And it is, because of our funding, it is only for people going through menopause, even if they're not quite there yet.

It's not a kind of general for everybody. And, unfortunately, although men do need to be educated and included in those conversations, they're not funded to attend the course. But small and medium enterprises across Greater Manchester might find the menopause sessions run by Stockport mind.

So where they go into SMEs and then can talk to staff, or they have sessions for managers as well about putting menopause policies in place or supporting staff through the menopause. So there are there are some workshops on offer that do include men as well. I don't offer those.

So it's worth knowing that there is lots of different things on offer and Mind in Rochdale, also running workshops in different communities across Greater Manchester as well. We the, different communities where English isn't the first language where menopause isn't often as talked about is quite taboo. So just general education sessions there. I think that's in terms of the menopause project across Manchester Mind.

We're always looking for volunteers. Volunteer opportunities are always up on our website. Whether, you want to help out in the allotment or find out about peer support groups or if you're a counsellor in training want to, come and do some of your hours with Manchester Mind, there's lots of those opportunities. So just look on our website and see what we've got coming up. I'm as you can hear, quite passionate about all the different things that we offer.

[00:25:43] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you. And I'm sure listeners will check out the website, should that be of interest.

I'll now move to the signature questions I ask all my guests. Can you describe the Mancunian spirit in a word or a phrase?

[00:25:55] Ruth Rosselson: Can do, I think we've got a real can do attitude, whatever it is, we'll step up, we'll do it and we'll say yes and then think about how afterwards.

[00:26:06] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I like that very much. Say yes now and then figure it out.

Can you share a Mancunian who inspires you and tell us why? And this could be somebody from the past, from the present, could be somebody close to home, does not need to be famous.

[00:26:21] Ruth Rosselson: Of course, they weren't all Mancunian, although many of them were. But as a young girl, I was incredibly inspired by the suffragettes by Emmeline Pankhurst, but also Christabel and Sylvia Pankhurst really inspired me as a young girl growing up and reading about them and Annie Kenny as well. So I think, even before I arrived here, because I'm an immigrant here as well I'm from London, there were Mancunians who really fired me as a child, as a young woman and as an adult as well.

[00:26:51] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you. She and the Pankhurst family are very popular and absolutely such an integral part of Manchester's history, ethic, we are the worker bees of Manchester, aren't we?

What's the most important life lesson you've learned so far?

[00:27:07] Ruth Rosselson: Oh, that's a difficult one because many life, I'm 52. There's been a lot of life lessons. But I think my main life lesson is we have to live in this body that we're given. Learn to be in the body and with the body, whatever it's doing, however it's feeling.

And for me, being in my body, generally involves some kind of movement, whether it's being outside in nature and walking, whether it's dancing with my wonderful Zumba dance fit teacher in Chorlton, or doing some yoga, getting out of my head and into my body, that's my life lesson, really all that whirring around, all that thinking isn't real, what is real is this body that we live in.

[00:27:52] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you, and that is such an important one. There's lots to be said for the benefits of movement and, like you said, focusing on our health and our bodies.

If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

[00:28:06] Ruth Rosselson: I know a superpower I have. Which is losing my keys, never know where they are, I've put them down, they weren't there, they're not there. And tangling my headphones, I'm really good at tangling headphones, I'm quite glad that there are wireless ones now.

A superpower that I'd like to, and I suppose this isn't really unique. I'd like to fly, I think. I think flying would be good. Sometimes I feel like I'm flying when I'm on my bicycle, so it's a little bit like that that feeling of being above and freedom of movement.

[00:28:37] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: The desire to fly is very much many people have chosen that and I can totally understand why and everybody's got their own take for it as well but it's interesting.

To end the podcast, is there a funny story or a heart-warming story you'd like to share with listeners?

[00:28:54] Ruth Rosselson: I'm trying to think, it's not really heart-warming per se. I'm from London and, in London everybody looks at the floor and they don't acknowledge that you exist if you pass them on the street and they don't look at you on the tube or the buses. And I often am out in Chorlton, in Sale Water Park, in Chorlton Water Park, I'm running, walking, sometimes swimming.

And people are just so friendly, and I've had so many conversations with people that I don't know, that I've never met. So this morning I was out for a run and everybody I passed said hello to me. And that I think is, is again, I think that's what makes I still want to call my home because I feel that, we're friendly, largely and it's a nice place to be where we can connect with strangers for a moment or, for a lifetime.

[00:29:47] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Yes, I think that's amazing. That's actually a quality that few cities have, so it's very nice that Manchester has that and I like that about, connecting for a moment or a lifetime, depending on the way life takes you. That's actually a nice way to end the podcast.

Thank you so much for taking the time, Ruth, for sharing about mindfulness and menopause. Keep up the good work and I look forward to hearing more.

[00:30:14] Ruth Rosselson: Really, it was my pleasure to meet you, Deepa, and to chat with you this evening. It's been really enjoyable. Thank you.

Ruth, thank you for talking to me today. I really enjoyed learning about supporting mental health for menopause today.

Dear listener, thank you so much for listening to the 11th episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, season six. Tune in every Tuesday for a new episode or log on to www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to listen to all the episodes and learn more about my podcasting story.

Next week on Tuesday 21st, November 2023, I speak to Caroline Lamb about gender based violence. This will be the season finale for season six. The Meet the Mancunian podcast will take a break until Tuesday, 9th January 2024, while I visit family in India.

Thank you for joining me on this enriching journey through the social impact stories of Manchester with the sixth season of the Meet the Mancunian podcast. I hope the stories you heard today have sparked a fire of inspiration within you. May they serve as a gentle reminder that no dream is too big or no passion too small.

Your feedback means the world to me. Visit www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to share your thoughts, suggestions and the causes that touched your heart. Your input helps me craft a podcast that truly touches hearts and makes a difference in our community.

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Your support fuels my passion, and I can't wait to bring you more compelling stories that will touch your hearts and fuel your soul. Until we meet again in the next episode, let's keep creating waves of change together. Remember, the world needs the Mancunian spirit, so go out there and be the change you wish to see.

Take care, stay inspired.