Talking supporting breast cancer survivors with Heather Glover

Meet the Mancunian-5.5-Heather Glover – Transcript

Intro

Welcome to the fifth season of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, social impact stories from Manchester. I'm Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe, your friendly host. It's a privilege and a pleasure for me to interview some of the most inspiring people working in Manchester's social impact sector and feature them on this podcast.

My guests are leaders and worker bees associated as employees, trustees, and volunteers with social enterprises, non-profits, and community groups. They share their life stories and passions with you, dear listener. My aim through this podcast is to inspire you and share a bit of good news.

My guests tackle serious concerns in Manchester but many of these are also universal themes resonating in many parts of the globe. All my guests talk about the power of collaboration and how together we are stronger. They, of course, expand on their pride in Manchester and Mancunians as well.

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Welcome to the fifth episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, season five.

Looking to support breast cancer survivors? We hear from Heather Glover, Co-founder, Skarlette in this episode.

Episode 5

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I'm delighted to introduce my guest, Heather Glover, co-founder of Skarlette. Thank you so much, Heather, for taking the time today on a very snowy day. Not an icy day yet, but snowy indeed.

Heather Glover: Yeah, snowy and cold, and it's the best place to be actually Deepa. Thank you for having me.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's great to have you. Tell us about how you found your passion for helping breast cancer survivors? Where did that start?

Heather Glover: I think it stems from my nursing career. I've wanted to be a nurse all my life and when I left school I went straight into nursing and that's what I've done ever since. So over 30 years now, I've been in nursing and I think wanting to help people find a solution. Children's nursing is what I did as well predominantly, and I think you work with families, you find solutions, you find ways around things, and there's a lot of health promotion and health education. It's not just about fixing people with a sticking plaster.

So when I got breast cancer myself in 2017, and originally that meant I had to have the lump removed, ,chemotherapy radiotherapy and get back to work. It's not all quite as simple as that, but that was my journey initially and that's what I did. But then it came back nine months after I'd finished treatment, I was diagnosed again, and that time I needed to have a mastectomy with quite a lot of tissue removed because of my prior radiation, I couldn't have reconstruction because of that previous treatment.

So I just needed to be so flat in case the skin didn't quite come together. That was the beginning really, because following the end of that treatment, I needed to have a preventative mastectomy on the healthy side because I was at 18 to 20% increased risk of developing another breast cancer, which I obviously wanted to avoid like the plague.

So in order to reduce that, risk. I can't eliminate it completely, but in order to reduce it, I needed a preventative mastectomy. And also, for the year that I lived, people call themselves uni boobers with one boob and a flat chest was probably my most unhappy year because every single, when I was dressed, I had my false boob in and I could ignore how I felt. When I got undressed, I was permanently reminded that I'd got something missing and something there. And psychologically, emotionally, confidence-wise, it was just, it was like my worst year. So when I actually had my preventative surgery and I just asked him to make it look the same as the other side because symmetry's always been important to me. I didn't want scars at different angles or anything that really would've done my head in. So he did a really good job. I was, you know, really pleased I could go down the reconstruction route in the future. But once I'd healed, and this is the beginning of 2020, I actually didn't like putting my prosthetic breasts on because I felt I looked like Mrs. Doubtfire. I didn't even feel that they made me look like a normal woman in inverted commas. But I felt every day I'm putting this thing on with fake boobs so that I look like a woman in my clothes or what society thinks a woman's supposed to look like. Then I get undressed at night and I've got a nippleless chest, and I don't know. Do you know? It just, it hampered the recovery. So I decided to just embrace my flat shape and remain flat and start learning to love myself again and grow confidence, which did take time and didn't happen overnight.

But when I discovered that, actually it's great not wearing a bra because I used to love getting my bra off, especially after a long day. I could not wait to get it off. Digging into my shoulders, digging into my ribs. But when you have that, taken away from you because you lose your breasts, which you know, you grieve for. They've got you through you feeding your children and you growing up and your nice clothes going out. You've lost that.

Now you've lost the choice to put nice pretty lingerie on as well because didn't really exist because you don't need it. And so I spoke to my friend who liked to sew and asked her if she would be able to make me a Skarlette. Which wasn't called Skarlette then I said a flat bra and she did make me a flat bra and it was incredible and I could not believe, well, how I looked and, and how I felt when I put that on. I was just like, you know, 10 feet tall, wanted to run outside and just show everyone. I felt so incredibly gorgeous and empowered and brilliant, and that's when we thought we need. You know, I spoke to other women I was working with Prevent Breast Cancer on the Booby campaign. There was other women that had similar surgery to me, and we were all disappointed and frustrated with the lack of lingerie Facebook groups and other groups that have got lots of flat women saying, yeah, it's either really expensive or it's really ugly, or it doesn't exist.

So we just thought, shall we launch our own then? And we did that and we called it Skarlette because it's shaped like a bralette, but it's a bralette for scars and not for breasts. And that's where it came from.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much for sharing that and you know, and also the very brave decision that you made to go for that preventative mastectomy as well. It's very difficult decisions, but, you know prioritising your health totally made sense. And I also understand from a sense of symmetry , as you shared that's important to you.

So Skarlette comes from that lived experience, and that's a really great story about how it started. So what does Skarlette offer now? And who is it for?

Heather Glover: So it is predominantly for flat chested women who've lost their breast to breast cancer because it is a completely flat piece of soft, gently stretchy lacy fabric. And therefore it's not made to support breasts. However, we do have women, they may have had breast cancer and mastectomy with reconstruction, but they've only got small A or B cup breasts, so they do buy Skarlette..

We've also had transgender and gender fluid customers that have purchased Skarlette as well. And now we have a camisole which stretches to accommodate breasts because of the way that it's designed and where the lace is, that doesn't stretch. So we actually have had quite a few women that have got a normal chest that have bought the camisole.

But we do have candles as well. We have beautiful candles and burners that are all essential oils and made locally, and that's because people were wanting to buy into the Skarlette, but they didn't want the lingerie because they didn't need the lingerie or have anyone to buy it for. So we launched the, the gifting range, if you like, with the candle so that people can still buy into the Skarlette and be part of the the journey.

But we have parents and partners and friends buying lingerie for their loved ones. And they're always people that have got a story. You know, it's not just like a.person that's never had a problem with lingerie. It's people that have had a real problem with who they are and they've transitioned or they've lost their breasts and they have no confidence.

And so. The moms or dads or partners that are buying these pieces of lingerie for them are given a gift that they just are, they contact us and they say, oh my God, I can't believe how my daughter feels, or my mom feels, and she looks absolutely beautiful and she looks sexy as hell. All of this, they just have their confidence and femininity restored so much, and that healing journey is catapulted just by putting on something that you would think should have existed anyway.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that, and it brings us very well to what impact have you made, and you also talked about some of the work you were doing around fundraising and body positivity when we were chatting earlier.

Heather Glover: So as well as the lingerie, we're not a brand that is just about selling lingerie. We want Skarlette to be like a double. We've got the lingerie, but we're also about the community. So we've got our social media and our website with newsletters and blogs that offer women and men support because it, you know, breast cancer does affect more than just the person with it.

And, we've got my journey on there. We've got other people's survivor's stories on there. We've got blogs about how to dress a flat chest, how to style your shape from people that are stylists or body shape analysers. And so it's all helpful stuff to support.

We're very interactive with our customers on our Facebook Messenger group. W e get back to people certainly within 12 hours, 24 hours that message us. They just want to know about sometimes the shipping or the sizing and something that's practical. But sometimes they're about to go for surgery and they're having a wobble and they just want to ask something, or they've bought the lingerie and then they put it on, and then they just absolutely just have to get in touch with us to tell us how they felt. Send photographs them. Through that happening, we've ended up growing our ambassadors, which I prefer to call them for our purpose, as opposed to influencers. They're women that have been through breast cancer, they've lost their breasts. They are all standing up to it in one way or another, and raising awareness and putting themselves out there so that other women can find them and can see.

It's not as scary and you aren't some kind of freak and you will have beauty and confidence again afterwards. So you know, people that have bought the Skarlette and then they're loving it and they send us these messages. We think they are just the people that need to be ambassadors for our company and purpose.

And, you know, we share body positivity messages on our social media . And Prevent Breast Cancer, who work closely with as an ambassador, we share their messages to raise awareness of breast cancer and breast health because ultimately they're the only charity in the UK focusing solely on preventing through prediction and early detection and saving lives, which we could save so many thousands of lives if you just do it differently.

And that needs education. So we all need to keep talking and sharing really.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you, and you're going to connect us with the charity later, so that will be great as well. And then, what challenges have you faced on this two year journey with Scarlette?

Heather Glover: Well, it's obviously a lot of pleasure, a lot of fun and privilege and we're really proud, but it's ongoing. The challenge, I think, with the business, having a nursing background and Kate, my partner's, got a background as a commercial pilot, so business it's alien to both of us. So we have both been on, you know, business support, coaching courses, marketing, trying to learn how to do what to do, but then we want our customers to be able to purchase the Skarlette more easily, more cheaply in their own countries rather than all online with the shipping costs.

Because we can't do anything about that. We can't control that, but, we need to learn how to get Skarlette into countries where we've been asked if it can, you know, they can distribute it in Canada and Greece and Germany and we'd love that, but we need to learn all of the legalities around that, the tax laws and, and Brexit and everything.

So we can't do anything overnight because we have to learn it first, and it will be wonderful to see Skarlette in other countries and people able to just buy it from their country rather than having to get it from the UK. So that, that is a challenge. Another challenge is our manufacturing, because we're manufacturing in the UK, which we're really, really proud of and want to continue to do, but that's expensive.

We want to keep our product affordable for the women that need it because it used to really bug me that once I'd lost my breast, I also had to choose from this undesirable range of lingerie that was actually not very nice and expensive. So we want to keep it affordable, but we also want to try and keep manufacturing in the UK because we've had, the manufacturers have taken on more women, they've taken on women that have lost seamstressing jobs in lingerie because, factories in lingerie shut down, and we're all going abroad and women are working from home around the family commitments.

And, so that's good. That feels good that, you know, we've got women who are enjoying what they're doing. They've got skills and they're using them and they're able to earn the salary. But that too is a challenge. And the business side of it, you know, do you spend all this money or, do you not?

I mean, it's like, if it was monopoly money, of course . Just spend it, do it. Take that risk. But as a nurse and as a pilot we haven't got that. It's hard sometimes knowing what to do for the best. I know what I want to do and sometimes I think I should just ignore my brain and follow my heart.

But marketing is a challenge because we still have people that are just coming across us now. And I'm always a bit surprised thinking . Why have you not heard about us before? But why would they have done as well? Because it's really expensive and it's really, really difficult. The marketing side.

And when we've got lingerie brands that do sell. There's another brand that sells a stretchy version of a flat type top, which is more expensive and nothing like the Skarlette, not anywhere near is pretty, but they're a big, well established brand who can afford to pay for all the things you need to pay for in order to be higher up Google and all of that.

So that's a challenge. We just want to get the word out there so more people search for us and follow us, and therefore we have a bigger presence. But nothing happens overnight. Rome wasn't built in a day, was it?

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's just been two years but you're going great guns and I'm sure there'll be even more opportunities as you progress. I have an idea for you which I should give you at the end as well because I just thought of something from my e-commerce background.

Heather Glover: Ah

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I used to work for eBay for 10 years.

Heather Glover: Right. Oh, well I can't wait for that little bit at the end then.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: So how can interested people reach out to you and learn more?

Heather Glover: We have our Facebook and Instagram accounts, which are very active and interactive, and they're @Skarlette that's s k a r l e t t e. We answer all messages that come into us from either of those platforms. We are on TikTok, but that is work in progress because it scares me to death. So that's an another route, but we have our website where we have a contact form. And we get quite a few customers that contact us that way and ask us, you know, if they can wear the Skarlette with X, Y, and Z types of bodies. So, and we love to hear, I mean, I'm a people person for sure, and I want to be able to talk to the customers.

We've not got an actual shop where you meet people face to face, but we are in contact and very interactive with our customers. So we love getting messages from them on either platform,

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Great. What advice would you have for people looking to start something similar in another part of the world or another part of the UK?

Heather Glover: Well similar as in not an another flat bra range. But you mean similar something for flat people

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: for flat women or something for breast cancer survivors or something for in the nonprofit space,

Heather Glover: Yeah.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: make it as specific or as general as you like.

Heather Glover: Yeah. I'd say don't let yourself hold you back because even though I've just been saying what I'm talking big money, holding me back or not, if you've got a gut, I always think your gut is a very, very fantastic instinct to follow. And if you've got a good instinct that you think something's missing, that could actually add value to the lives of other people and you know how to do it, then I would say take the leap of faith and do it and run with it, because what's the worst that could happen? You know, with Skarlette, I really hope it soars, flies and is as successful as I visualise being all over the world with all the different ranges in our own factory and everything.

But if it didn't, I've tried. You know, and we have made difference to lots of people already. So I would definitely just say don't let yourself hold you back and follow your gut.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you. An opportunity now for you to talk about anything I haven't asked you about. I think you mentioned you've got a new, exciting range coming up.

Heather Glover: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We have the swimwear. So from the very start when we launched Skarlette, I wanted swimwear because it's something that you can't conceal under clothes. Actually, if you're gonna put your swimwear on, then you're out there, aren't you? And that's a really tricky, I've continued to find that really tricky because either you are in a a, I like bikini top on holiday, and you are in a top that crucified your chest cause it's too tight in order not to gape or in order to fit your chest. You've got these pockets that even if they're made for the smallest of breasts, stay still. They plop them, like the air fills them and then they go flat and it's just not a good look and it's not a good feel. So we've got our own range of swimwear coming out, which has got a really, really good name and we love that name.

So I've been waiting to launch that for ages and I've got to not slip up and accidentally say it. We've been quite creative with our colour combinations and designs to offer quite a lot of interchangeability and flexibility, and we've tried to accommodate the needs of, we obviously can't accommodate the needs of everybody because there is only so much money with regards to manufacturing, but we've tried to accommodate the younger, smaller woman that likes to have more skin on show and then the sometimes slightly larger or older who likes to be a bit more modestly dressed in their swimwear. So we tried to accommodate both of those and we're hoping to have that launched. I mean, I did see an email before and I've not read it.

I'm like crossing my fingers and hoping everything's going to plan for. For March, April at the latest. But when we originally set out with a spring launch for swimwear, to be fair, it was when we just launched Skarlette and we were targeting the UK audience and our spring obviously is well I know our weather's a bit changeable, but we're heading for like the may, june time.

But we do have customers in Australia and New Zealand and Spain and you know, America and Canada, Mexico. So it doesn't really matter what time of year it comes out because 50% of our customers probably live somewhere nice and warm at some point of the year.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: At some point in the year, even the UK gets very nice and warm in the summer, doesn't it?

Heather Glover: And actually our latest ambassador to come on board, which we're in the middle of sorting everything out, but it's another customer because we have ambassadors that love the brand, love the lingerie and want to endorse it. And promote it because they believe in it and it does such good for people.

And the latest lady that's gonna come on board is actually an open water swimmer in the UK. So even today, she'd be out for a swim in the outdoors. So hats off to her, but that'll be great because we've got, you know, doesn't matter on the season or the temperature. We'll still have Skarlette swimming around in the outdoors.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That is a nice thought. I'm now going to move to the signature questions I ask all my guests. And my first one for you is, can you describe the Mancunian spirit in a word or a phrase?

Heather Glover: It is always hard for me to summarize. My husband says I speak in far too many words, and it's hard to summarize that one, but I do think Mancunians are generally hardworking, hard loving people.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that, and I like that very much and I think it, it does epitomise them very well. Can you share a Mancunian who inspires you and why?

Heather Glover: Well it's not a famous Mancunian that everybody will know. It was actually my mom who is a Mancunian, born and bred and, you know, she got married to my dad and they had six children. Five of them were boys. I take my hat off her for that one because I don't know how they lived in a semi-detached house with three bedrooms, five boys and a girl.

And I believe I was the saint of all of those children. But she, aside from that, she also fostered children and she worked as a nurse on a children's unit, so she would work on night shifts opposite my dad. Sometimes she'd get no sleep or a bit of sleep and then she'd have all these children that she'd be looking after.

They never depended on any benefits. They took us on holiday every year in the UK and then, you know, she continued to volunteer all of her life until she got dementia. And raising money out through making cards or singing in choirs and was just an absolute treasure, really. And, somebody that I continue to think, I hope every day that I'm making her proud still.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I'm sure you are making her proud, and thank you so much for sharing that. Can you share what's the most important life lesson you've learned so far?

Heather Glover: To grab life by the horns. Definitely, I think don't put anything off that you could possibly, possibly realistically do today. I'm not saying go and spend all your life savings, but if there's anything that you would really want to do with somebody that you really wanna do it with, then go and get it done.

Because none of us are gifted tomorrow. And even, I mean, I've learned that more because of the last five years and, and the friendships and the communities that I now mix in more. Then obviously the risk of people passing away because of cancer is increased because I have more friends with cancer.

But prior to Christmas there was two more long distant friends that I had who were both like late forties, early fifties, who went to bed and then were dead. And you know, they've got children, my children's ages, they weren't expected to die and.

That's really awful. And I just think we need to not take any life for granted because it isn't just me who's had cancer.

You know, I say to my family, not, you might, we can't think you've got tomorrow. And if there's something you want to do, you need to go and do it. See the people you wanna be with.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Yeah. I think that's such an important life lesson because we really need to seize every moment and cherish our loved ones and spend time with them.

Heather Glover: Yeah. Yeah. We do.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: We do. If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Heather Glover: A dream of having like a magic wand that I could just like, think about, sprinkle on the entire world and just get rid of all the horrible nastiness that goes on, the fear and the just the evil people and it will be a peaceful, loving, calm, happy, realistic place. I'm not saying everyone should all be like hippies with the pink rose tinted spectacles, but just that we can trust each other and we can love each other and live and let live and stop dictating to each other.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I hope that wish comes through. It'll be very nice to have that kind of world and where we are. There are lots of good people out there, of course, but there are some not so good as well.

Heather Glover: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: So, Heather, thank you so much for talking to me and my listeners. I really enjoyed learning about all the great work you and Skarlette are doing today.

Heather Glover: Thank you. Thank you. And long may it continue.

 Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Absolutely.

Outro

Heather, Thank you for talking to me and my listeners. I really enjoyed learning about helping breast cancer survivors today.

Dear listener, thank you for listening to the fifth episode of Season five of the Meet the Mancunian Podcast, social impact stories from Manchester.

I hope you enjoyed it. And it motivates you to follow your own dreams and passions. Please do consider visiting the website, www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to leave me some feedback or suggestions on what causes resonated with you or ones that you would like to see featured here. I really welcome listener feedback and will do my best to incorporate your suggestions in future episodes.

Next week, the Meet the Mancunian podcast talks to Qaisra Shahraz about encouraging inter-faith understanding. Tune in on Tuesday 23 May, 2023 to hear the next episode.

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