Meet the Mancunian -8.1- Vicky McKinlay transcript

Intro

Welcome to Season 8 of the Meet the Mancunian podcast: social impact stories from Manchester. A warm Mancunian welcome from your host, Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe. Thank you for joining me today.

Every Tuesday, I bring you the stories of Manchester's unsung heroes, the individuals who helped to create positive change in our community. My aim is to inspire you, dear listener, to follow your own passions, whether through volunteering or working in the social impact sector. I'm also keen to spotlight good causes and create more awareness and support for them.

Whether you're tuning in on Apple's Podcasts or Spotify or on my website, www.meetthemancunian.co.uk, get ready for a season filled with inspiring tales of social impact within our beloved city.

Welcome to the first episode of Season Eight of the Meet the Mancunian podcast: social impact stories from Manchester.

It's Volunteers Week in the UK from 3-9 June. The focus is on celebrating the amazing contributions volunteers make to communities across the UK. Volunteering helps you create new skills and experiences and boosts your confidence. It also makes you feel good and improves your wellbeing.

Introduction to Vicky McKinlay and Her Passion for Community Sports

Passionate about sports in the community? We hear from Vicky McKinlay, Volunteer, Blackburn Harriers Athletics Club in this episode.

In Vicky's own words,

[00:01:31] Vicky McKinlay: I love being part of the community. I love learning from other people. I like how everyone's a volunteer. It's a bit of a different feel than when you're in paid employment. Everyone wants to be there.

[00:01:42] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much Vicky for joining me today.

[00:01:45] Vicky McKinlay: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I've heard lots of your podcasts and I'm really happy that you've invited me.

[00:01:51] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's a pleasure and looking forward to learning more about what you're doing to support sports in the community.

Discovering a Passion for Sports Through Family

[00:01:57] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: But tell us first about how you found your passion for supporting sports. When did that start?

[00:02:02] Vicky McKinlay: It started as an adult. It happened really when my son was at primary school. And he ran a mile race every day at school. And I was never really into sports at school. And my friend, said, why doesn't he join. He was too young to join Blackburn Harriers because they have to be eight.

But she said, why doesn't he go on the waiting list? And she ran the waiting list at that point. And she said, if you add to him when he's eight, he can join the sports hall group. And that's the first time I'd heard of it. I didn't want Alex and me really to not be doing any sport until he was eight.

So I started doing the couch to 5k in Blackburn and that got me into running. So I really enjoyed doing that and then I started being one of the run volunteers for Blackburn couch to 5k. Rick Wilson started it and he was running it at the time and that's how I got into sport as well. I did that until Alex could then join Blackburn Harriers. That's how we started.

[00:02:54] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: A lot of people start sometimes in childhood so you actually found it when your son showed interest in sports.

Volunteering Journey at Blackburn Harriers Athletics Club

[00:03:01] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: How did you get involved with the Blackburn Harriers Athletics Club and what does it do?

[00:03:06] Vicky McKinlay: I got started when Alex started so I began volunteering as a parent volunteer. Helping out with the 8-to-11-year sports hall group. They do fundamental athletics, which is, the basics of athletics is based on fun, so games based. So balance, coordination, flexibility. I watched him do a few sessions and rather than me go home, I thought why don't I help out?

So I started helping out with them. And really enjoyed being part of a team and working with the other coaches. And then progressed really into doing the admin for the sports hall role. And now I do the sports hall waiting list. I'm the first point of contact. If anybody wants to join Blackburn, in terms of being 8 to 11, then the parents contact me. And then I was invited to be a joint welfare officer.

I love that role because I'm a teacher in the Northwest, and it's part of what I do at school anyway. So I'm very comfortable with safeguarding and welfare. I do that across the club. And then also I was invited to be an official because when we went to competitions, sometimes they can be whole day competitions and I just wanted to help out.

I started being involved in officiating, measuring long jump. I do field events, so it's jumps and it's throws. And progressed through that and I've got qualification now at level two. So I can work at regional competitions leading events like Long Jump, organising other officials.

So it's just grown and grown really. And I love being part of the community. I love learning from other people. I like how everyone's a volunteer. It's a bit of a different feel than when you're in paid employment. Everyone wants to be there. Not that you don't want to be there when you're working, but it's just a bit of a different environment working outdoors and learning something completely different than what I'd learned when I was younger and growing up is just really refreshing as an adult.

The Variety of Roles and Their Impact

[00:04:57] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I love that you have such a variety of roles and they've all started at a period of time. Is there a favourite role that you have?

[00:05:04] Vicky McKinlay: I love doing the sports hall role because I'm a high school teacher. So I work with 11-to-18 year olds day to day and sports hall is 8-to-11. So I love that it's a different age group. I'd say that's probably it is my favourite. I work with those children two hours a week, you develop relationships with them, you get to know them really well. You know if they're stressed out in a competition and what to say to them. I love doing that, love it.

But I also really love officiating. It's a very different role because you have to be impartial. So sometimes there's one of my athletes competing and I can't say, well done, or I can't give them any tips, I've got to step out of that coaching role and go into being impartial and unfair with all the athletes.

Any advice I give has to be before the competition started, any last-minute pointers. If they're doing shot put, I'll remind all the athletes together that they're not allowed to step outside the front of the circle, they're not allowed to have their elbow too low, which is a common error when they do shot put. And I've got to make sure I'm not coaching any individual athletes because that's not allowed when you're officiating.

But what I like about officiating is that you're working as a team, you've got your role, you know what you're doing and quite often you're outdoors in very nice weather in the summer, and it's just a really lovely sociable environment.

[00:06:24] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I like that you have a range. One is about teaching and one is, like you said, about, working as a community together to run this in a fair and equitable way. And it's reminding me, many years ago, I used to be into a variety of things, running also I used to do shotput and discus. But I quite enjoyed those years and years ago. I'm going back before I was 12, I think. That's something I quite enjoyed.

Challenges Faced in Supporting Athletes and Volunteering

[00:06:54] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What challenges have you faced in your journey to support students? Like you said, sometimes then it could be about them feeling stressed, but could be other challenges as well. As a volunteer, what are some things you need to work with?

[00:07:07] Vicky McKinlay: I've had personal challenges as a parent when I've got two children who compete, and as an official, I can't. Sometimes we can stop an event. Like if we're on the practice stage, they don't need all the officials to watch the athletes if they're doing a practice for a long jump.

Because normally, when you're officiating, you're a parent of an athlete that's also competing at that event. So, we can work as a team to make sure that one person can come out and watch their child run a race. Because races last different amounts of time, but if it's, say, a 75-meter sprint, it will take 12 seconds. You can watch your child if you know that's going to happen.

But if you're doing something like hammer, that's very dangerous, if you're not officiating and paying attention all the time, and discus, as you said, and shot put, you need to be watching all the time and being aware.

Quite a lot of the time, I've missed out on watching my own children compete because I've been officiating. And that's been challenging, and it's been challenging dealing with their emotions if I've not managed to be there and watch that moment for them.

We've had to work out as a family that I'll officiate at events where they're not competing, or I'll officiate at an event after they've competed in their event. Or sometimes, I'll officiate the same event that they're doing, which is fine as long as we've got other officials that make sure that everything's impartial. And I don't treat my child any differently while I'm officiating. Or sometimes, my husband has to come and watch my children compete whilst I'm doing my job. So that's been a bit of an issue.

Everyone's willing to learn. As a level two official, it's my job to make sure that everyone's safe. So sometimes I get officials that aren't too sure of the rules, which is fine, but I need to coach them into what's okay, what's not, or mentor them and correct them if they're not spiking, for example, the long jump correctly, or if they're not pulling through the tape measure tight enough.

And it's about being efficient as well. So, the longest events tend to be the throwing events because you have to retrieve them. So, we have to be really efficient with retrieving and making sure, obviously making sure that everyone's safe, but getting things done quite swiftly, making sure that people are calling athletes names up on time so that we're not waiting around for them. Sometimes there are some challenges with that.

Sometimes some parents challenge our decisions but ultimately, we can see something closer than they can, so we have to be aware that we're doing the right thing and we're doing the best we can in the circumstances that we have. It's about talking to parents in the right way, treating the athletes the right way fairly and respecting them as well.

Sometimes they have to do two events at once, which is quite challenging. Say they're doing long jump and then they have to go off and do a race. In long jump, you get what's called three trials, so three times that they can jump, that's after the practice jump, and if they're not there for one of their trials and it's finished, they've lost the chance to do that jump.

But if I talk to the athlete, I can make sure that they go first on one trial, then they can go for their race. And then when we're on the second trial, as long as we haven't finished the second trial, then they can do theirs at the end of the second trial. So it's working with the athletes, and listening, and trying to be as cooperative as we can.

[00:10:02] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Quite a few things. One is around, some element of coordination and supporting people and guiding other officials as they learn. And then I think this perennial challenge of being there for your children in a way that supports them, but also allows you to do the role that you're trying to do. I can imagine there's a lot to balance there.

Making a Positive Impact in Athletics and the Community

[00:10:23] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What impact have you made so far?

[00:10:26] Vicky McKinlay: In terms of the impact that I've made, I've talked about fundamental sports hall athletics, how we work on flexibility and coordination. It's really important that our athletes have the basics right before they go into their specialisms. I like how early you said you did discus and shot put and you did lots of different events which is brilliant. Because quite often we get athletes that just think they're endurance runners or just think they're sprinters and the danger of specialising too early is they might miss out on another sport they could be better at and wouldn't know that yet.

Because everyone develops at different rates and athletes go through puberty at different rates and they end up developing into different kinds of athletes. It's really important to keep your sports open. S.o a lot of our athletes are also footballers. They're also into martial arts, and having that variety is really important.

Athletes don't peak until, I think for the faster events like sprints, they peak at around 20 to 25, and then our endurance athletes can peak at 40. It's being aware that athletes will develop over time, and you might be the fastest when you're 11 and in a race, but then you might get another athlete overtaking you that goes through puberty a year later.

And then to just realise that it's a journey. You have to do the best you can at the age you are and improve on your technique, but you're not going to be the best athlete you're going to be until another 20 or until you're 20 or 40 even. And we do get athletes that drop out, unfortunately, particularly with girls around the age of 14. And just being really aware of what we can do for those girls and how we can keep them in sport and make sure they feel safe, we have the right transportation for them, we give them the right advice.

Because we've noticed a drop off particularly with girls in all sports, we need to be aware of that really. So it's having an impact and being aware of the issues. It's also about so in terms of educating the sports athletes, educating them about safety on the track. It's about in my welfare officer role, being aware of safeguarding, so they're not left alone.

Though I had to, for example, treat one of our athletes last Monday, and I made sure a parent came with me to go and treat him, so I wasn't left in a room with him. Just being aware of that, really.

So when we train the athletes, when we coach them, we go through sort of different things in the sessions, like we demonstrate what they have to do, we observe, we analyse what they're doing, we give them feedback.

I'm doing an executive coaching course at the moment. I'm doing a level 5 qualification with Yasmin Arif. So I'm doing two coaching courses at the same time. I'm doing an athletics coaching course and I'm doing an executive coaching course. And it's really great because I can see the perspectives in both.

When I'm coaching athletics. It's more like mentoring. You're telling the athletes what they need to do, what their technique is, you're doing demonstrations, you are giving them feedback, whereas executive coaching is more about them having the insights and asking questions that provoke a response in them because they have the answers and that's really more applicable with older athletes.

So the athletes I work with, it's more mentoring, but I will be working with with jumps athletes in a month's time as part of my athletics coaching course. And they are far more in a position to be able to tell me what that technique was, how they could improve it what they would do differently next time, what the impact would be. And that's far more like executive coaching. So I find it quite interesting.

 I've also work with as I've said, officials. So I've had an impact with them in terms of training and development, particularly because I'm a level two, I can help and I can train and develop the other officials that are level one officials and also going through the basic official qualification. So I've been a good role model at our club.

And so I feel like I've had an impact in lot of different areas really. And also supporting them at competition, which I've mentioned with my own children, it's really challenging if I'm officiating and I can't help them in the way I'd like to, or support them emotionally.

If you get an athlete that gets three no throws at shot put, and I'm officiating shot put, and they are gutted because they've spent months training for that, and I know they're at our club and I'm their welfare officer, it's really hard not to, console them. I can, as an official, say certain things, but that's quite hard, having those different hats on.

But being aware of that when we're training our sports or athletes, telling them, what could happen at competition, how they might feel and just helping them to be aware of what competition is like. That's how I feel I've made an impact.

[00:14:55] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: it's quite a varied range that you've covered and I also like the contrast between people needing the mentoring versus like you said through executive coaching where you're bringing out their own insight and their own skill set.

Busting Myths About Sports and Volunteering

[00:15:09] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Is there a common myth about either sports and athletics that you'd like or about your role as an official that you'd like to bust?

[00:15:18] Vicky McKinlay: Probably a couple of things, really. I think some people see officials as being very officious would be an appropriate word, a bit harsh. And we actually really care about what we do. We want everything to be fair. We don't want to give anyone an advantage. We're very conscious about bias.

And sometimes we can't cheer athletes on, and we can't say things that are different to different athletes. Because we're not allowed to do that. So, I suppose it's busting that myth that we can't, at the end of a competition, we can say well done to different athletes and well done to everyone for competing and that's fine. We're a bit harsh because we're just being fair.

And also, we're volunteers. I think some people don't realise that sometimes when we're, we get told off sometimes by parents, just being aware that we are unpaid volunteers. We have, jobs and lives in addition to officiating. We really enjoy it, but it's about respect, isn't it? Respect for officials in all aspects of sport. Referees, athletics, officials. There's that really. We're not getting paid for what we do. We really care about it.

So just being aware of that and not thinking that everyone that is a coach was into sport from, being a child and loving it. I really didn't like sport at school. I've come to love it as an adult through my own experiences. I'm not able to run at the moment because of health issues, but I did compete for Blackburn. I have trained as an adult. I can see all of the social benefits of sports. Just being aware that we all have different backgrounds and not just assuming that we're all like sport crazy at school and think everyone should be into all aspects of sport.

I really believe that athletics is amazing, but our athletes should be doing different sports as well. It's for their own health and their own benefit. If they over train in one aspect, then they tend to get injuries. So it's good to do a variety and not specialise too early. That's why I love sports hall because it's not just about going straight in and doing sprints or going straight in and running.

I get a lot of queries from parents. Who say that their child runs 8km with them and they're 5. And can they join our club? And immediately I think, oh dear, because they shouldn't be doing that distance at that age. They're like puppies, they shouldn't be running too much. That's why children do 2km. They shouldn't really be doing 5Ks.

And the issue with children is they don't feel they don't feel the effects of over exercise. The lactic acid doesn't build up like it does in adults. They don't feel achy. They don't feel sore. So, parents think they can over train them and they can cope with it. But actually, they're doing harm without really realising it.

And then I get a lot of queries about can they just do running? Again, then I need to say they do a variety because they need the foundation, they need the balance and coordination and technique for running. But also, if they turn out to be a thrower, they'll also need that for throwing, which is why we need the sports hall group and to not specialise too early.

[00:17:59] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Lots of great myths that you've busted there. I like the one about not specialising too early and remembering that it's a journey. And the one about, as a volunteer, you're doing the best you can. And I think the best way, perhaps, is to get the parents to also be volunteers and walk in your shoes for a day.

[00:18:18] Vicky McKinlay: I absolutely agree. I think without, we need the parents because without the parents volunteering, we don't have a competition. Most officials are parents. The clubs get points for officials. And we always say that we need more parents to volunteer.

Definitely, if more parents volunteered and officiated, then the officials that do officiate wouldn't have to do as much. We'd be able to spread the workload out more. Parents would have a greater understanding about the events and what goes into them. Seeing different athletes perform, and it's amazing seeing athletes achieve more than they ever have before, and the jubilation of that. And you also see the absolute lows. You see the ups and the downs as an official, so it is a really valuable experience.

Advice for Starting a Community Sports Movement

[00:18:59] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What advice would you have for people looking to start a similar movement in their local community if they're passionate about sports and they live in another part of the UK or somewhere around the world? How should they get started?

[00:19:12] Vicky McKinlay: I think it's important to either join a club that's already there, and it's already established. If there isn't a club that's already established, then find a group of passionate people who care about athletics and developing athletics. If you're in the UK, we've got UKA, UK Athletics as the body that governs UK athletics.

And if you could find the equivalent in a different country, then that would be brilliant because then you get that support and be aware that it isn't just about the elite athletes. But every athlete has got the potential to do their best. And it's seeing that and not just focusing on specific elite athletes.

Athletics is a relatively cheap sport. In terms of equipment, you just need good running shoes and sportswear, so you don't need to have specific equipment like you might need to have in martial arts. And then it's about just being aware that, but I think that's particularly appropriate for developing parts of the world.

Or for deprived areas in the UK. And also, being aware of why athletes leave athletics and putting measures in place to avoid that, not just girls, but also there tends to be a drop off rate with teenagers when they start getting exams or they go to university and encouraging them.

Having an idea about where your athletes could go or having partnerships with other organisations so that athletes don't drop off altogether and being aware they may come back. Just being aware that you're always welcome back and having that door open for people I think that's really important.

[00:20:44] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you, that's great advice.

Signature Questions

I'll go to the signature questions now that I ask all my guests.

If Manchester was a colour, what colour would it be and why?

[00:20:54] Vicky McKinlay: Oh, I think I'm going to go with the bee theme, and I think orange with I think it's a very vibrant colour. I think it's just a happy colour, isn't it? And we've also got the link with the Manchester bee, and I think with Manchester's textile background, I think that you'd get like really amazing textiles with orange.

And it's also about the fabric really, the fabric of life in Manchester linking back with the textiles. I can just see orange fabric and just see how all different ethnicities and people interweave and link in Manchester. So, I think I'll have to go with orange.

[00:21:29] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's a beautiful analogy. I like that very much and although I would say that the worker bees in my mind are more yellow, but I've seen all kinds of colours and some very beautiful depictions in multi coloured and like you said, this vibrancy. And orange is a nice happy colour, especially the sun, many flowers.

If you could choose a famous landmark in Manchester to represent you, which one would it be and why?

[00:21:55] Vicky McKinlay: I would pick the Comptoir Libanais restaurant in Manchester because it's very varied. You've got foods from different parts of the world, which I think are just really amazing. They have like rose and mint tea which is just really different and unique and it's just food that I don't really get to taste very often and just love the combinations.

I think there's quite a lot of multi-faceted parts of my life. I do a lot of different things And I see things in different ways, and I think that represents me because I've got my teaching side, and I've got my coaching side, athletics that I do, with the voluntary things that I do there, and also being a mum, and I feel like all those different combinations of what I do mix and work in the same way that their food is. It all just tastes amazing. I think that would represent me quite well.

[00:22:46] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Nice. I must look it up. And I do enjoy Lebanese food. In Saudi Arabia, we had some really good food from all over the Middle East, and Lebanese and Turkish food really stood out,

If you could trade lives with someone in Manchester for a day, who would it be with and why?

[00:23:05] Vicky McKinlay: I think I'd like to change roles with someone who works the Science and Industry Museum for a day. I think that I'd really like to gain their insight into what's really special about that place. I'd like to understand a bit more about the people that work there, what exhibitions they think are really interesting.

I'd like to just see what they do and just see the kind of people that come in, who visits that museum, what do they do there, what are their perspectives, and why do they have those perspectives, and I'd love to swap places with that person, I think.

[00:23:37] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's a very nice museum. I've taken my family there.

Reflecting on Personal Growth and Insights

[00:23:39] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: What's the most important life lesson you've learned so far?

[00:23:43] Vicky McKinlay: I think it is to be less judgmental and, I've learnt so much about myself in the last few years. I've learnt so many misconceptions that I had that I've now, thank goodness, corrected myself on. And I don't look back and think badly of myself because I was ignorant. But I feel like I'm in a much better place now in terms of understanding myself better and understanding other people more.

And just giving myself a bit more space. And it's okay to make mistakes, and it's okay to acknowledge that you've made those mistakes. It's far better to acknowledge that especially to other people, and show that you have that grace, and you've got that compassion for yourself, and you can show that compassion for other people.

I just think it's really important to learn from lessons, and I think the coaching course I'm doing at the moment with Yasmin has made a massive difference and I'm just able to open up my preconceptions about myself and other people and I'm catching myself out now and flipping the bias.

If I think, am I thinking that way about that person because of that characteristic? I can flip it and then think, would it be different if they were somebody else? And then, and if I do feel different, then I can check myself. And if I feel the same way, then I think, no, actually that's an okay way to feel. So it's just having more awareness and giving space for yourself to grow.

[00:25:02] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I like that very much about the awareness, but also the self-compassion. Because I think sometimes, we can be our harshest critic. So just being kind to ourselves, treating other people like we want to be treated, means that we can just be a kinder world all around. We're not holding ourselves to an unrealistic standard.

What's the most important personality trait somebody needs to work in or to be successful in the role you do? Maybe you can take the official role here because that's quite an interesting one.

[00:25:33] Vicky McKinlay: I'd have to go back to what to coaching really, because it all applies to officiating as well. It's about having empathy. It's about having that unconditional positive regard for the people having rapport with other people and just thinking the best of someone.

And it's being able to work together. It's an empathy as well. So, all of those are really important characteristics and obviously being fair and non-judgmental and going back to my safeguarding role, making sure that everyone is safe. That's your number one priority, safety, especially in an officiating role.

[00:26:10] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It's a great selection of things that people need to think about if they get into officiating.

How can interested people reach out to you and learn more? Where can they find you and where can they find Blackburn Harriers Athletics Club?

[00:26:23] Vicky McKinlay: Blackburn Harriers the website is Blackburn harriers.co.uk and for any queries for eight to 11 year olds, it's me. And for any queries for older athletes, it's George. And both of our emails are on the website under joiners. For me, you can find me on Twitter. at vmckinley, that's v m c k i n l a y f c t and also I'm on LinkedIn under Victoria McKinley f c t.

[00:26:50] Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thanks, Vicky. I'll make sure to include both in our show notes.

Outro

Vicky, I really enjoyed learning about supporting sports in the community today.

Dear listener, thank you so much for listening to the first episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast season 8.

Tune in every Tuesday for a new episode, or log on to www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to listen to all the episodes and learn more about my podcasting story.

Next week on Tuesday 11th June, 2024, I speak to Katie Geelan about community choirs.

Thank you for joining me on the Meet the Mancunian podcast: social impact stories from Manchester. I hope today's conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired you to act in your community. A big thank you to my wonderful community for your continuous support and valuable feedback.

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