Meet the Mancunian - Talking disability with Ben Andrews

Transcript-Ben Andrews

Intro

Welcome to the seventh episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, Season Four. I'm Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe, your friendly host. On the streets and nooks of Manchester, my inspiring Mancunian guests tackle their causes with grit and passion. They are leaders, worker bees, and community hosts, and they share their stories to inspire you all through the season.

Relax, grab a brew and listen to the Meet the Mancunian podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, or any of your favourite podcasting platforms. You can also check out all the episodes on my new website, www.meetthemancunian.co.uk.

Looking to help the disabled, hear from Ben Andrews, author and Managing Director, Beyond Empower in this episode.

Episode seven

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I'm delighted to introduce my guest, Ben Andrews, author. Thank you, Ben, for joining me today.

Ben Andrews: Cheers. Thanks for having me.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Great to meet you on a rainy day. It's nice to be inside and watch the rain from inside my home.

Ben Andrews: Nice. I'm just listening to the rain in the office now and it's quite nice to be inside dry while that's going on.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: So tell us about your passion for helping the disabled and for diversity and inclusion. How did you develop that?

Ben Andrews:  Yeah, so my passion comes from my own experience. So I'm registered blind. I have a degenerative visual impairment, retinitis pigmentosa which involves the rapid deterioration of my eyesight.

It is a hereditary condition, something I share with my mom and my granddad and it means that for now, I've got sort of poor vision generally. I have trouble differentiating between colours and the biggest sort of issue is night blindness. So I have very poor vision in dull or dark lighting.

So it's something I've grown up around. It's something that's always been a part of me. As I've said, my mom had the same conditions, so I've seen some of the barriers that she overcome as a blind person with a more progressive condition than the stage that I'm at now. And I think growing up around that just gives you a bit of a different perspective around how places just aren't built with disabled people in mind.

So I think growing up with it, that's where the initial passion comes from. And then it's just sort of spreading that message and trying to think about how we can make places better for more disabled people beyond just people with visual impairments, which is my own experience.

And I think the other side of it's, for me, I've always been quite interested in history. And how some communities over the years have been oppressed for lots of different reasons. And I think sort of disabled people have experienced that and are still experiencing it. So, sort of the biggest driver for me is just to try and create a bit of more of a level playing field where we're all treated the same so there's more awareness and acceptance.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think, you know, that lived experience is always a great way to give you a very unique lens on the concern and it's a very significant one.

So you started with writing a children's book series called Better Places. Tell us about that.

Ben Andrews: Yeah, so the Better Places, picture book series has come from about 12 years of working with adults to try and help them make places better for disabled people. And I think the most common sort of statement that's get said back to me when we're looking at adjustments that can be made for disabled people or our places can be better is I just never thought of that.

That's the response I get a lot of times with adults. And that's, you know, working with local authorities, the NHS community groups, infrastructure teams, lots of different places. So it doesn't come from a place of intent on malice to make places exclusive of disabled people to try and push disabled people out of places.

It just comes from a place of lack of awareness. So the thinking behind the book series was to try to support the next generation to have that awareness, just part of how, who they are, how they operate. So as they grow into adults who are making these decisions, they're just not putting the barriers in place, to begin with.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much for sharing that. And is it one of a book series or is it just a single book or anything you want to talk about?

Ben Andrews: Yeah, so the first series is Better Places, the Street series, and that's got five books. And it'll all be focused on how we can make street design better for disabled people.

And that'll be people with visual impairments, wheelchair users, it'll be sort of a story of different people with different access needs. So the first book in the series is Better Places, Nick and Candy Street and that is due to release in February 2023. And that's specifically around street access for blind and visually impaired people.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you so much, Ben.

And then, of course, you have your firm Beyond Empower where you work with disabled people and support them to have a better life. So can you tell us about that?

Ben Andrews: Yeah, so Beyond Empower has been something I've been working on for about 12 years now, since about the age of 17.

As well as sort of my condition that I mentioned before. When I was about 17, I really started getting into fitness. And then started seeing issues within the sort, the fitness industry for disabled people. So that's how it sort of started - Beyond Empower, trying to make places in leisure more accessible for disabled people. And then it's branched out from there now.

So we offer services across Greater Manchester to work with groups or individuals who are disabled, find out what their interests are, go out into the community, find those opportunities and work to make them accessible and support disabled people to access. So it's been a long journey to get to that point.

But yeah, we're there now and it's really good. Got a good team, got a good team of seven, who are out there making a real difference to not just disabled people. I think that's where people associate us with just sort of making a difference in disabled people's lives. But for me, it's the societal change that's the biggest thing.

So, as well as working with disabled people, we also work with lots of other environments, leisure centres, infrastructure design and those places need our help as much as disabled people in some way. They need the help to make their provision more accessible and inclusive. 

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That is great because, you know I recently spoke to another guest who was talking about making theatre accessible, but you know, you're very right, leisure centres and many other things are probably designed for not always in the most supportive way for people to access it. So that's a great cause. Thank you for doing what you do.

There must be many challenges that you've had to overcome in this, in this journey. So can you tell us about some of them and how you overcame them?

Ben Andrews: I mean, setting up a business for anyone can be quite challenging especially when you're coming at it from sort of a social angle. I think it does take you some time to appreciate not everybody's coming at it from that angle. So then a bit of advice that I've picked over the years is how can you reframe what you are doing to satisfy others' agendas?

You know because it does cross a lot of agendas. This for example, opening up more spaces allows disabled people to contribute to the local economies more. It's a better use of spending because you are creating services that work for more people.

When I initially started, it was all about this is the right thing to do. We should be doing this for disabled people. And then over the years you sort of think, well, actually, I think people all buy into that as individuals, but when you're working with institutions, it might need to be put across in a bit of a different way. So I suppose initially it was a bit of a barrier learning that, but now it's a real game-changer. Once you know what sort of people want or institutions want, you can frame it in a way that satisfies what they need to hear.

And then I suppose from, from a personal perspective there's not been that many sorts of barriers that can relate to sort of my vision or anything like that. Really, this is the hardest time here when it's dark nights and you've sort of got to.... Because that's where I'm most affected in the dark and I've got to sort of juggle meetings so I'm back home while it's still a bit light outside. And then so that, that's a difficult dynamic sometimes. But the beauty is with having your own company and developing as an entrepreneur, your days can be as flexible as you want them.

You know, you can book meetings around you. So again, maybe initially a barrier, a bit of learning, but sort of grown and settled into the role and now sort of work it so it works for me,

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Which is so true, right? As an enterprise, you can work to what's more comfortable for you. And you know also, I really like that about framing the narrative for corporates, or institutions to really understand, rather than saying it's about the rights of disabled people. It's about maybe giving public funds and making them applicable to a larger part of the community. That makes so much sense. Thank you.

What impact have you made so far?

Ben Andrews: made so far? So we've reached hundreds of disabled people to support them, to access activities of interest. We've reached tens of organisations working with them to make their provision more inclusive.

And the beauty of it is, even if we work with one disabled person and one activity and we change that activity for that person, then we don't have to reach all the other disabled people with the same issue because that activity is now more inclusive, so they can just take greater ownership of disabled people.

So I think that's the next stage for us to try to capture that wider impact. And then we help disabled people sustain activity independently by changing that environment. So we've got to collect some sort of impact information around that, but the thing that I enjoy, well, more reading now than actually achieving myself.

I used to be on the ground a lot and I'd see first-hand the difference that was happening in people's lives. Whereas now I'm sort of reading it through reports of the team, which is still really nice. I do get a buzz off it. And that's my way of staying connected in a way.

And so we've had people who've gone from sitting at home watching, you know, the same programs and repeats day after day. No one really gave them a chance to do anything else. It's just sort of, I think sometimes it's accepted that you know, you are disabled, you're going to stagnate, you're going to deteriorate. There's only so much you can do. You're best stopping in, being looked after all day. And that type of narrative's, just quite an old outlook.

And it's quite dated. And so we've had people who've been sat at home all day, not really doing much, and then they've connected with us because the GP might have referred them because they've put on some weight or they're showing signs of depression. And then they've said they're interested in the gym, they want to start dancing, they want to start drama. We'll go out into the community, we'll find activities. We'll work with the provider to make them accessible, and then we'll support them into it.

And this is an actual case, so I'm describing it without naming any names. But you know, this person can, has now gone on to keep going to the gym. They've made friends there. Then I would send them to dance and drama regularly. So it's those types of impact too. When you look back through the story, and we're talking like three years, four years on now, from when we actually started working with them, and that has had a real impact on that person's life, not just from improved physical health, but also sort of expanding social circles, doing something stimulating, doing something purposeful with their days.

And yeah, I get a lot from that. And hopefully, the people that we're working with do too.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I'm sure they do.

How can interested people reach out to you or learn more?

Ben Andrews: Yeah, so my social media is always at benandrewsinc. So you can catch me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. I also post regular content on YouTube to do with topics and issues to do with disabled people.

If it's anything relating to Beyond Empower and helping disabled people get more active and mainstream environments becoming more inclusive, that's at www.beyondempower.co.uk. And then anything related to the books at Better places.uk. So yeah, a few platforms there, but all of it will run through benandrewsinc. So that's the best place to start.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: No problem. I'll add your websites to the show notes. Thank you. So that'll be easy for people to find.

What advice would you have for people looking to start something similar in another part of the world or another part of the UK? As we said, we have listeners from 43 countries and you know that some of them might get inspired by your story and look to see what they could do to make their communities more inclusive, and more supportive of disabled people.

Ben Andrews: I'd say similar to previous podcasts that I've listened to on it, I think the first step is just going for it, sort of committing yourself and saying, I'm going to create the space to really think about this, and work on it, and just get out there.

Put yourself out there. I'm a firm believer if something is making sense in your head and you've got lived that experience of it, then go for it. And other people will say, you know, that might not work or you're never going to make anything of that. But you've got the lived experience there to work of, they might not have.

So it makes sense in your head, maybe not theirs. So then it's just a case of proving it and time and time again, people are proving that that's possible. So, I'd say create the space for it and just enjoy it. Don't rush it. I think especially when you're trying to achieve something social.

You, you sort of have, oh, am I making an impact? Am I doing anything right? This could be better, this could be more efficient. But we're all stood on the shoulders of giants from previous generations who've got us to this point, and you are just adding to that platform. So you might not see the change that you want to in your lifetime.

Some people might think that's, that's a bit depressing. Why? Why can't I see? I want to see it now. But I think it's something satisfying that knowing we just started chipping away at the same things and we are collectively going to get there. But so it's part of a bigger picture sort of thing, and be content in that. Be happy with knowing that.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: I really like that about taking the time as well as, you know trusting your gut or your instinct because you've got that lived experience, you know that you can make the benefit happen. So really good tips. Thanks so much for that. An opportunity for you to talk about anything that I haven't asked you about.

Ben Andrews: No, I think we've covered most things. I think the biggest thing coming up for me, as I said, is the Better Places book Nicky and Candy's Street which is about a young blind girl, Nicky and her white cane Candy. And they're on a trip to a friend's house where the journey proves a bit difficult and the book asks the reader to help make the street a better place.

So that is available for pre-order now and it'll be out in February 2023. So yeah, that's the big upcoming for me and that's something I'll be working on sort of getting out there in the next few months.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you.

So I will now move to the signature questions that I ask all my guests. And the first one is to describe the Mancunian spirit in a word or a phrase.

Ben Andrews: Oh, I think grit. I think grit is probably an appropriate thing that you do, just crack on and you have to get by in circumstances that aren't always that great. What you do is crack on and you do achieve. And I think, you know, there are many Mancunians that prove that. And yeah, I'd say sort of grit.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: It’s a great one. Definitely, one that I can see through the guests as well.

Can you share a Mancunian who inspires you and why? You can choose one who's living or one in the past as well.

Ben Andrews: A Mancunian who inspires me. I think I'm 99% sure he is Mancunian. But he is a poet called Tony Walsh.

Well, he's done poems for years, but he did a poem when the terrorist attack on the Manchester Arena and that really blew up in Manchester. And he has helped me out. He inspires me as a poet and someone who's really good at his craft. But also, when I first started writing the books, I got connected with him and he is just been really helpful ever since.

So, aside from his fame, You know how good he is at what he does. He's just a really lovely person. So yeah, I'd say he's the person who inspires me the most.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Thank you for sharing that. What's the most important life lesson you've learned?

Ben Andrews: I think the most important life lesson, so I'm going to, I have two that conflict in some ways, but one is I do think that if you ever want to achieve what you want to achieve, then you do have to work hard. Like you do have to put the graft in and you have to set time aside and really apply yourself to it.

But in the same breath, you need to enjoy yourself. So I'm sort of still learning that. I think we're always trying to find balance in that we need to work hard when we need to work hard. But aside from that, you know, spend time with family. Enjoy yourself. Do the things that you want to do, because you know, you never, from all the stuff that I hear and read, you never get anyone on the deathbed saying, I wish I would've worked harder. It's always, I wish I would've spent more time with my loved ones. I wish you would've worked less in some cases.

So I think don't let yourself get to that point knowing what we know now. You know, do it now. Enjoy yourself and spend time with your loved ones. And that's the important thing.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That's a really great tip, and I think it is one that we need to always balance, right? It's a constant challenge, work-life balance as they say.

And it's easy to go into work mode, but to forget those little moments that you won't get back.

Ben Andrews: Absolutely. and if you can find a creative outlet as well, I think that's what I found with the books. Managing a company's brilliant and especially when you're passionate about it. I love it.

I didn't really realise that there was probably and although we are really creative within the business and we're always innovating and thinking of new ideas. There is a different style of creativity, sort of what I found through writing a book and working out the characters and being a bit silly with the stories that I found is really satisfying.

Maybe an element in life that I'd long forgotten from childhood. But I've been given the opportunity to run with that now and I'm really grateful for it. So I would say, you know, whether it's learning an instrument, writing a book, starting a podcast, editing videos, whatever it might be. Put a bit of time aside for yourself and do something a bit creative that you can have fun with.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: Great tip.

If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Ben Andrews: I think flying would be a good superpower, wouldn't it? Being able to fly. I want to go traveling. So being able to fly around. Yeah, it'd be amazing. You won't want me flying around in the dark though, I would probably bang into a building, but flying in the day would be alright.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That sounds like a great superpower.

Is there a funny story you'd like to share with listeners?

Ben Andrews: One comes to mind and it is to do with my eyesight actually. So I used to be a health trainer before in my second year of university, I got a job as a health trainer, and that was supporting people to improve their health.

Generally could be related to employment, housing, general health, like wanting to lose weight, whatever it might be. And this particular day I was going to a home visit with a colleague because we had to do home visits in pairs and it was in this big block of flats at Eccles. So we've got out of the car, we've walked up to the block of flats and I've looked up and I've seen this guy dressed up in an Elvis costume.

So I like call out to my colleague and said, look, there's Elvis. And just laughed. And she started just sniggered and didn't really make much of. I thought that's quite funny. Just someone stood up there just as Elvis. So then we couldn't get in the actual flat. We had the flat number, but we couldn't get into the actual building to go and see the client.

So we were getting a bit worried, you know, we need to get there on time. So I said, oh, I'll go and ask. And she must've been thinking who are you going to ask? So I walked back to the front of the building. And I've shouted up to Elvis excuse me, how do we get in this building, mate? And he had no response.

And I thought that was a bit rude. And then my colleague comes around the corner and goes, Ben, what are you doing? And I said, I'm just asking the guy up there how we can get in. And he is not responding. And it turns out she was in stitches. It wasn't a person, it was a cardboard cut-out of Elvis. So I stood in the middle of Eccles asking him, how do I get into the flat?

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: That's a really great story. You know, but it happens to all, we think that something looks more realistic than it should. They use that in wildlife sanctuaries in India. Think they do tiger stuffed toys to keep the monkeys away.

So you're in good company

Ben Andrews: Thanks for making me feel better, Deepa.

Deepa Thomas-Sutcliffe: So I really enjoyed learning about diversity and inclusion today. And thanks so much, Ben, for sharing that.

Ben Andrews: No problem. Thank you.

Outro

Ben, I really enjoyed learning about helping the disabled today. Dear listener, thank you so much for listening to the seventh episode of the Meet the Mancunian podcast, Season Four.

I hope this episode and the podcast itself encourages you to follow your passions. Inspired by the amazing Mancunian guest who feature here. Tune in every Tuesday for a new episode or log on to www.meetthemancunian.co.uk to listen to all the episodes and learn more about my podcasting story.

Next week on Tuesday, 10 January 2023 the Meet the Mancunian podcast, talks to Sarah Revington about sustainable fashion.

Please do leave a review or a voice message on my website, www.meetthemancunian.co.uk. It takes only a few minutes. Thank you.